John Ward November 18, 2011 EU media balance

As the EU degrades into a parody of jingoism, it’s nice to know Der Spiegel is still around.

I know this will seem like more of a tweet than a post, but there are times when observing something simple is worth a million words.

The insults that have been flying back and forth (in every combination) between France, Greece, Germany, Italy, and the UK in recent weeks might lead one to think that we are about to plunge into the 1oo Years War, the Franco-Prussian War and perhaps even the Roman Invasion of Ancient Britain. But really good media magazines/sites can always provide balance, and Der Spiegel is one of these.

I urge you to read this piece, (it’s in English) written in advance of Cameron’s visit to Berlin today. It is a timely reminder that wars are always between governments….and never between real people.

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mickmac on November 21, 2011 at 10:05 pm

“But really good media magazines/sites can always provide balance, and Der Spiegel is one of these.”

Love your blog but this has to be the daftest thing you’ve ever written.

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Bankrupt Taxpayer on November 19, 2011 at 6:46 pm

@RP: Yeah, already read that article. nice.
ISTM the whole EU project should be a fairly shallow community based primarily on the Single Market and other bi-lateral agreements as desirable.
But it got taken over by a bunch of wannabe despots who have used it to further their own importance, empires, powers and personal wealth. Much of what the EU sticks its nose into today is simply wrong and unnecessary …even if European peace is the ultimate aim.

I fear the European political elites are so deep in denial about the failure of the EU, there is no way any one of them has the spine to stand up and tell the truth or call a halt to it. A bad infection of group-think.

As I’ve said many times, the EU has created the very conditions which it was set up to prevent. The only people who can bring an end to this madness are The People themselves.

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Harold Rosario on November 19, 2011 at 3:58 pm

At least Princess Anne is not actively working to and does not have the power to reshape Europe into a form more to her liking.

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rightpaddock on November 19, 2011 at 3:05 pm

@hi BT – did you see this, should be more to your taste, Münchau in the Mirror – The Euro Zone’s Deadly Domino Effect http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,798695,00.html

Apparently the Greeks reduced the salary of some cavil savants from $5,000pm to $4,000pm, then they rigged the system to have an 15 months in a year LMAO

WRT The Project – Its been too long in the oven, they’ve been deepening and widening at the same the time. They should have done the Full Monty with the original 6, and then invited others to participate. Which for some reason sent me off to find this

If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well
It were done quickly: if the assassination
Could trammel up the consequence, and catch
With his surcease success; that but this blow
Might be the be-all and the end-all here,
But here, upon this bank and shoal of time,
We’ld jump the life to come. But in these cases
We still have judgment here; that we but teach
Bloody instructions, which, being taught, return
To plague the inventor: this even-handed justice
Commends the ingredients of our poison’d chalice
To our own lips. He’s here in double trust;
First, as I am his kinsman and his subject,
Strong both against the deed; then, as his host,
Who should against his murderer shut the door,
Not bear the knife myself.

cya

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ResteCalme on November 19, 2011 at 1:04 pm

@ rightpaddock. Thank you very much. I will read through carefully and hopefully it will explain why all I can see is politicians seemingly unstoppably moving in a particular direction while claiming they are not.

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rightpaddock on November 19, 2011 at 1:03 pm

@ResteCalme – if I were apportioning “blame” I’d start with the media, then the schools, then maybe the government, and lastly parents,but only in the sense that it’s their job to raise kids with inquisitive minds – that’s probably a lost cause also.

Its the media’s job to call the government to task and confront them with the facts, its the media’s job to inform Joe public of what’s really happening. Our media is too partisan,as a result the engaged public is also too partisan, which encourages disengagement, as people walk off saying – I cant be bothered with all this crap, what’s on the telly.

Its the schools job to teach kids about the institutions that govern their lives.

I don’t expect the government to “educate” people, its always propaganda, no matter the party, no matter the issue. They only ever tell us what they want us to know – never what we need to know,

When I hear the “the EU is only intended to be about Free Trade” mantra from politicians or the media I tend to think “bull shit, you know that’s not true, tell the truth arsehole” and then I’ve gotten on with living. Sometimes I have a rant.

Anyway have a look at that PDF, then you’ll know what they haven’t been telling you for the last 60 years. Those 13 pages should have been put through every letter box in 1975.

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Bankrupt Taxpayer on November 19, 2011 at 12:13 pm

Something that has crossed my mind many times in recent years as the EU gas grown into the monster it is today, is that it was an idea after WWII to prevent Europe ever going to war again. To its architects, it seemed like the perfect solution at the time. Today, it’s an idea that belongs in the past — it’s out of date and the political elites are jammed in the past.

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ResteCalme on November 19, 2011 at 11:55 am

Well, I can understand the expressed point of view, if the Germans have been told and believe that the EU is the way to create peace and prosperity in Europe and that, by some miracle, the poorest economically performing countries will be brought up to the living standards of the highest. The Germans – prior to the current crisis – seem to have believed that.
However, it seems to me that UK politicians have represented the EU to our electorate as no more or less than a single market to facilitate trade. No loss of sovereignty or decision making. Now that the British public can see it is much, much more than that we feel confused and lied to.
I take the point that I could have spent more of my own time researching this to arrive at my own independent viewpoint – but life got in the way! The electorate have to trust their government to keep them well informed because we simply don’t have the time to look into every political matter ourselves. There aren’t enough hours in the day!

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rightpaddock on November 19, 2011 at 11:25 am

@Mary Wilbur – I do my best to elucidate

I deleted the bit about Aussie Rice growers and Idaho Corn growers :) Do you still have those diabolical; rules about who, where, when & how much dairy farmers are allowed to produce.

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rightpaddock on November 19, 2011 at 11:07 am

@ResteCalme – I’m sorry you weren’t told, but that would be the fault of your parents, the media, the government or schools

The European Project had two architects – Jean Monet, and Robert Schuman – I sometimes get the impression that most Brits have never heard of them. Thanks to my Dad I read their papers in the library in my early teens, he would drag me there 2 or 3 times a week to read political history. In his key proposal of 9 May 1950, Robert Schuman wrote the following.

By pooling basic industrial production and setting-up a new High Authority whose decisions will be binding on France, Germany and other member countries, these proposals will bring to reality the first solid groundwork for a European Federation vital to the preservation of world peace.

The High Authority is of course the EU Commission, and The European Federation is what Churchill had called the United States of Europe in his 1946 speech in Liepzig,and what Merkel & Schauble are calling More Europe.

I wasn’t here when Britain joined the EU in ’73, but I was here in ’75 for the referendum, which I discussed with Dad. He was a Europhile who wanted Britain at the core of Europe, I was a Europhile who wanted Britain out of Europe – but we didn’t fallout over it.

Today there’s no need to go to the library, look up Monet and Schuman in Wikipedia and follow the links – but don’t believe all that you read their either. Here’s Schumans Declaration of 9th May, 1950 and other relevant documents, its 13 pages http://www.eppgroup.eu/Activities/docs/divers/schuman-en.pdf

Heath made a speech in the Commons regarding Schumans proposals on 26th June, 1950 – was would have reported next day in The Times.

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John Ward on November 19, 2011 at 10:21 am

Sorry, don’t follow the logic of why the article’s only fair and balanced if we swallow the junk about ‘can’t get out’. I don’t swallow any of it.

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John Ward on November 19, 2011 at 10:17 am

To be honest William (et al)
Britain’s cost of borrowing is a quirk. It’s largely based on the fact that our long-long term track record is sans pareil…AND WE’VE ACTUALLY TRIED TO DO SOMETHING about the debt.
The market as usual is wrong: technically, we are in a worse position than anyone outside the ClubMeds.

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John Ward on November 19, 2011 at 10:10 am

Um….what was?

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Sebastian Weetabix on November 19, 2011 at 9:27 am

The money supply collapses. What else to do other than create more of it? Before you mention Weimar, their problem was they printed about a trillion trillion times too much. Money printing per se is not always a catastrophe.

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Sebastian Weetabix on November 19, 2011 at 9:24 am

It may amuse you to know that one of the German slang terms for us is “Insel affen”, which translates as ‘Island Monkeys’. In other words, insular small minded people who only care about what happens in our own troop.

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ResteCalme on November 19, 2011 at 8:43 am

Sorry, should have been “inter-country trade” above.

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ResteCalme on November 19, 2011 at 8:41 am

That article is only fair and balanced IF you work from the starting point (as all of our political parties and media do) that we are so far into the EU that we can’t withdraw (and any suggestion that we should is racist or idiotic) and that the best we can hope for is to tinker at the edges.
If this is correct, then it is a shock because I, as a Brit, had always been told that the EU was just about a single market to improve inter-country state. It may be that other citizens of Europe were not kept in the dark to such an extent.
No wonder we are sceptical when we seem to have been told X when it was really Y. All part of “bringing the people with you”? Seems more like “dragging them blind, angry and confused behind you”!

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Mary Wilbur on November 19, 2011 at 7:39 am

Yes, we have several government run Ponzi scheme’s in the US, like Social Security and Medicare.

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Mary Wilbur on November 19, 2011 at 7:35 am

@ HHS Wolfie is obviously trying to throw (another) wrench in the works of the talks between Merkel and ‘Cameron. He doen’t need to represent German public opinion because as your previous posts have declared he has Merkels ear and is apparently controlling her EU policy.

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Mary Wilbur on November 19, 2011 at 7:18 am

@Rightpaddock What you have described as Agrarian Socialist would also apply to the conservative wing of US’s Republican Party, which just goes to show that words don’t translate well from one language to another, as you said.

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rightpaddock on November 19, 2011 at 7:11 am

Beth McLean has a critique of the ESFS titled “The Euro Zone’s Self-Inflicted Killer” at Reuters http://blogs.reuters.com/bethany-mclean/2011/11/18/the-euro-zones-self-inflicted-killer-efsf/ that concludes with.

“The EFSF is due to expire, and is supposed to be replaced by the European Stability Mechanism, or ESM, in mid-2013. But the ESM looks like it’s going to have same problem the EFSF does: Its finances depend on the very same countries that it is supposed to bail out. In other parts of the world, this isn’t called stability; this is called a Ponzi scheme.”

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Harold Baker London on November 19, 2011 at 1:09 am

Well said. You really know him well, I could not have described him any better ;-)

And then, we should always remember with Schäuble, that he is a party soldier. Whatever he says, on whichever subject, is directed at his party members (with intention to influence their course and the factions/wings within) and the German electorate (trying to push the discussions in the German public opinion in a certain direction).

His remarks on the pound, although they sound for us as if he wanted to interfere in British national polictics, have actually not a lot to do with Britain and the reality here. He wants to convey to the wavering German public that here is no alternative to the Euro. He does not want to take the word Deutschmark in his mouth (taboo!), so he paraphrases about the pound and states that even this venerable old currency will eventually be absorbed in the holy Euro (so he thinks/hopes/postulates). Message: don’t even think about that there could be a possibility of a return to DM.

Well, and the rants about the City, more of the same. He builds up some scapegoats he can blame for the Eurozone’s financial failures (and his own as German Minister of Finance), he has to blame these and paint them as evil financial hasardeurs so that the German public do not look to clearly at his (and the Eurozone) failures.

Remember how good old Wilson and Brown gnarled about the “gnomes of Zurich”? For Schäuble et al that is the “gnomes of London”.

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Harold Baker London on November 19, 2011 at 12:45 am

@Gemz
No stout Bavarian Farmer will ever lay his hands on a “liberal” (a.k.a. left-wing) and anti-church (anti-catholic) rag as Süddeutsche Zeitung. The will either read “Bayernkurier” (the weekly of the Bavarian “conservative” party CSU) or the Münchner Merkur (or one of the Merkur’s local cover-sheets.

Süddeutsche Zeitung IS today the Gruniad of Germany, the house gazette of social-democrats and the left-wing intelligentsia. Frankfurter Rundschau used to be even more so, but the paper is almost extinct now due to permanent financial problems (well, they are socialists, aren’t they) and the axing of their new owner.

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rightpaddock on November 18, 2011 at 11:20 pm

@Gem wrote – “Now tell me that they are socialists!”

That’s what I just did – what they are NOT is Urban Socialists

Urban Socialists tend to be city/town based, with socialist economic policies, an emphasis on centralization and larger government, and they hold progressive social views. The emphasis of urban socialists is therefore on control, ownership and utilisation of the means of production, rather than land.

The one value shared by Agrarian and Urban Socialists is in the area of economics. They both like government handouts – subsidies or benefits, both is even better. They both like state ownership of things like banks and utilities. They both like state intervention in the markets – especially agricultural markets in the case of the Agrarians, who are particularly fond of black letter law mandated “grower owned” coops.

Not all Socialism is the same, just as, not all Capitalism is the same.

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Bankrupt Taxpayer on November 18, 2011 at 11:13 pm

@Gemz:
I don’t speak German. But I may have to if Herr Merkel gets her way!
I’ll probably dial ‘nein nein nein’ and ask for the police.

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soap mc tavish on November 18, 2011 at 11:05 pm

Gemz, why do we need to show schauble how good the pound is? We are not trying to force him to use our currency, he can use what he likes and we will use what we like, if he don’t like it, tough. Slashing the cheeky bastards tyres is the least he deserves

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Bankrupt Taxpayer on November 18, 2011 at 11:04 pm

Sorry, John.
I thought it was about the German newspaper quotes in Der Spiegel.

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Bankrupt Taxpayer on November 18, 2011 at 10:59 pm

@Gemz: I don’t feel the need to show Baubles anything. Whether the British keep the £ or drop it in favour of the € is a matter for us, not him. He’s talking out of place, he should shut up.

“That the Conservatives have not seen fit to allow the pounds continuing and steady fall (if mitigated somewhat as William rightly says) will not endear it to the likes of Schäuble.”

Not sure what you mean here. The Conservatives have allowed the £ to remain in its fallen state…a 25-30% drop in value since 2008. Merv is rubbing salt in the wound by QE and inflation.

I’m off to Brazil next week for 2-3 months and will get ~R$2.60 to £1.
A more correct PPP rate would be ~R$3.50 to £1.

Gee, thanks Mr Government.

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John Ward on November 18, 2011 at 10:46 pm

HHS
Yes, but this is because Schauble is a prick. He represents Germans roughly to the same degree as Princess Anne represents the British.

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John Ward on November 18, 2011 at 10:43 pm

Er, BT…the post was about Der Spiegel.

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Gemz on November 18, 2011 at 10:41 pm

@RP
When one is stuck behind a slow driver in Germany one always calls them Bavarian, because the Bavarians are slow people, farmers who spend all day driving tractors with ploughs. In short, they are used to travelling at 5km/h.

The registration plate for Fürstenfeldbrück is FFB – a rural area near Munich. Most Germans simply know it as “Fuhrerschein für Bauern” or “Farmer’s drivers licence”. To be stuck behind a motorcar registered in Fürstenfeldbrück is not unusual.

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Gemz on November 18, 2011 at 10:34 pm

@BT
would it not be better to show him just how good the pound is? Slashing his tyres would only tell him that he needs to up the terrorist level.

That the Conservatives have not seen fit to allow the pounds continuing and steady fall (if mitigated somewhat as William rightly says) will not endear it to the likes of Schäuble.

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rightpaddock on November 18, 2011 at 10:34 pm

German man blows dog whistle – British Bulldog barks.

British man blows dog whistle – German Rottweiler growls.

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Gemz on November 18, 2011 at 10:30 pm

@RP
I see Bavarian farmers as solid, honest and Mercedes driving (old ones at that). They are conservative in manner and conservative in means. Their land is their livelihood. In short, they are farmers, and Bavaria is full of them.

There are also several manufacturers of motor vehicles – MAN in Nürnberg and Augsburg (or was) and BMW, amongst other industries too numerous to mention. They are generally right of centre and like a paper that reflects these views.

Bavaria as a state – and I am guessing that many of you do not realize that Bavaria has a separate conservative party (CSU) because Bavaria has always considered itself independent of the Federal German Republic (Bundesrepublik Deutschland). Just how much this is factual does not stop them living it and believing it. The CSU has pretty well always had a majority in Bavaria, and I do not see this changing.

Now tell me that they are socialists!

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rightpaddock on November 18, 2011 at 10:29 pm

Great opportunity to buy a luxury apartment in Shanghai for shirt buttons.

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rightpaddock on November 18, 2011 at 10:25 pm

@Sandy – Germany just reduced its reliance on Polish and Ukrainian territory to get gas from its partners in Moscow via opening up NordStream (undersea gas pipeline from Russia to Germany under the Baltic).

If the Polish government want to upset their rural communities by confiscating their land, again, and are able to sell their shale gas to the Germans cheaper the Russians sell their gas, then I’m sure the Germans will buy it. Or better yet build a shale gas fired power station and import the electricity – look ma low carbon Germany.

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Gemz on November 18, 2011 at 10:20 pm

@Soap, BT
Have either of you ever read the Süddeutscher Zeitung (I have posted links … ) ?

What is your own, independent observation of the newspaper and its political leaning?

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Bankrupt Taxpayer on November 18, 2011 at 10:19 pm

Somebody should slash Baubles’ tyres!

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rightpaddock on November 18, 2011 at 10:12 pm

I see the problem – people using the same word with different meanings

The “stout Bayrisch farmers who vote CSU and read the Süddeutsche Zeitung over their bread rolls & coffee” are Agrarian Socialists

“Agrarian Socialists – tend to be rurally based, with socialist economic policies, an emphasis on decentralization and smaller government, and hold conservative social views. Agrarian socialism applies to predominantly non-urbanized demographics. The emphasis of agrarian socialists is therefore on control, ownership and utilisation of land rather than the means of production.”

I’m sure I could find a number of such people in the Conservative Party, none in the Labour Party, and perhaps a few in the LibDems.

The FPTP voting system fosters a two party political culture; history tells us that coalitions such as the current one are an aberration.

Consequently different political cultures are not explicitly expressed as British Parties or in the MSM. The German CDU/CSU (permanent) Alliance is similar to Australia’s Liberal/National (permanent) Coalition. We had a chance to change the voting system in the AV referendum, but as in ’75 we also missed that opportunity.

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Hi Ho Silver on November 18, 2011 at 9:51 pm

Wolfgang Schäuble, the German finance minister, has predicted the end of the British pound in an interview with newspaper Die Welt.
In the interview, the finance minister says the day where the whole of Europe was united under a common currency would arrive “faster than many people believe today in the British Isles”.

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Bankrupt Taxpayer on November 18, 2011 at 9:47 pm

Will that mean the demolition of Brighton? How about the South Downs?

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kfc1404 on November 18, 2011 at 9:38 pm

Sandy, we have huge reserves under the South coast, there is one field that runs from Eastbourne to the other side of Southampton and is about a mile and a half wide, apparently they think that there are similar fields in Kent and Hampshire.

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rightpaddock on November 18, 2011 at 9:23 pm

It seems to me that the UK has had a limited form of a financial transaction chugging along since 1986 – The UK Stamp Duty Reserve Tax http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/sdrt/intro/basics.htm

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soap mc tavish on November 18, 2011 at 9:07 pm

I heard that QE causes global warming too.

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Professor Metwetwe jnr on November 18, 2011 at 8:47 pm

Erst mach’ dein’ Sach
dann trink’ und weinen!
First take care of business,
then drink and cry!

We’re working late and drinking mudslinger cocktails in sympathy with the poor german taxpayers this friday night.

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william on November 18, 2011 at 8:42 pm

Gemz,the ‘rating agencies’award AAA to both the UK and France.The market charges France an extra 1.5 percent for 10 year money.The sterling devaluation took place under Labour.Apart from Reuters,there is FT.com,Bloomberg etc, for Mrs. Merkel to study.

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Bankrupt Taxpayer on November 18, 2011 at 8:36 pm

@Gemz: see comment from “soap”.
Also, there is much confusion about what is socialist and conservative in this world. IMHO most of European politics is fully signed up to the democratic socialist agenda using a variety of names, including the parties which (in their own countries) are described as conservative. Bavaria has produced a few fascists in its time and they were most definitely not right-wing.
People wrongly assume that authoritarian and prescriptive govt equals right-wing. It does not. See Adolf, Stalin and many other socialists.

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oldasiahand on November 18, 2011 at 8:29 pm

You are jopking of course. Some lard arse commie dumkoff!

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Robin Banks on November 18, 2011 at 8:27 pm

Just in case Europe does blow up there’s always China that could be the first domino (Ireland on steroids?)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/8900271/China-property-raises-concerns-as-prices-continue-to-slide.html

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Robin Banks on November 18, 2011 at 8:25 pm

Britain and the US have driven down yields with QE which both will pay for with a currency collapse and hyperinflation in a few years.

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soap mc tavish on November 18, 2011 at 8:14 pm

Funny the article itself describes it as centre left

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soap mc tavish on November 18, 2011 at 8:09 pm

The ratings agencies don’t set the price of gilts, the market does. If they see you as a. good investment you get cheap money, if not you don’t. Obviously ratings come into this, but Britain and France are both aaa. The difference in price is directly down to the markets perception of the quality of investment

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Gemz on November 18, 2011 at 7:59 pm

@BT
The stout Bayrisch farmer who reads the Süddeutscher Zeitung would not take kindly to having his newspaper called socialist. The Bavarians are amongst the most right-wing humans in Europe, and that includes most of the members of the Conservative party.

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Gemz on November 18, 2011 at 7:56 pm

@William
please remember that the Ratings agencies rate the likelyhood of a country defaulting. They do not rate the quality of the investment potential. In this respect, Britain retains its AAA.

Whereas in reality an investment made in gilts has lost some 30% of its value in 5 years when invested using a foreign currency.

This sort of analysis is not available at Reuters.

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Bankrupt Taxpayer on November 18, 2011 at 7:50 pm

My view of the German newspaper comments made:

– Süddeutsche Zeitung: socialist trash.
– Die Welt: socialist trash (yes, really).
– Handelsblatt: reasonably balanced, thoughtful.
– Financial Times Deutschland: socialist trash, worst of all.

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Sandy on November 18, 2011 at 7:39 pm

Invade Poland, nick the shale gas ;)

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soap mc tavish on November 18, 2011 at 7:24 pm

The tobin tax may well be a negotiating ploy. Create a problem, bring the Brits to the table and give ground on the problem you have created in return for something from the Brits. In affect you get something for nothing. Also helps Cameron, he can give stuff up and still claim a victory because he stopped the tobin tax, which as I say may well be a smoke screen. They know how to play the people, and the press, it is their job after all.

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oldasiahand on November 18, 2011 at 7:23 pm

Soapy: I’m proud to be a Little Englander!

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saucyboy on November 18, 2011 at 7:23 pm

Germany is looking east with hope and anticipation, but this farce of entirely her own making in her own backyard has significantly weakened her cause and will be her comeuppance in kind when she is dumped from a great height with blatant and ruinous copyright infringement when the time is right.

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soap mc tavish on November 18, 2011 at 7:20 pm

To be fair some of it is, but some of it isn’t, and I get sick of this “little Englander” term.

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marcjf on November 18, 2011 at 7:16 pm

I think an interesting point here is that there is a recognition that the TOBIN tax won’t raise revenue but is symbolic. Apart from curtailing the City (which according to your viewpoint is a good thing or not) what is the logic? It maybe some strange continental attack on “anglo-saxon” (aka UK/ US market economics). I’m increasingly getting confused by events. I look for threads of rational behavior and find none.

Does anyone here actually have a game plan or are small minded politicians being thrown about by events? The TOBIN tax is such an obvious loser in economic terms it has have a political agenda.

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Jon on November 18, 2011 at 7:04 pm

I dunno, I think that it’s pretty understanding and objective. I’m always surprised at their quality given that it’s The Mirror.

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william on November 18, 2011 at 7:04 pm

Could somebody tell Merkel that if the UK is such a basket case,how does she explain why France (and the rest) have to pay a premium of substantial proportions for 10 year money,in the markets?We are not perfect,but surely she can read a Reuters screen.

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green gecko on November 18, 2011 at 7:03 pm

That was a waste of time.

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soap mc tavish on November 18, 2011 at 7:02 pm

Whenever I read the German press what really stands out to me is the complete lack of understanding of my point of view. To them I am simply a foolish “little Englander”. Like I’m living in the past and have no grasp of economic realities. They seem to have no idea what our objections are or what very real problems we foresaw with the Euro .Or of any of the real problems with the E.U. project. I find this very sad. I know there are plenty of British papers that misrepresent the German’s in the foulest way too. It’s amazing really that in this century, with the internet, satellite t.v. and all the rest, that to close neighbours and allies still fail to understand each other.

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