John Ward May 6, 2014 Britain in new desperate bid to stop brain-drain

Old bloke requires straightforward help: AN APPEAL

The venerable Thomas Pride, tweeter extraordinaire, posted a funny piece today worthy of the Daily Mash: ‘Britain to discourage immigration by making UK shit’. However, there seems to be some kind of conspiracy designed to stop the emigration of smart Britons comme moi.

I have now been everywhere and tried everyone, including people of great wisdom, but I truly cannot fathom out the following very simple process:

1. What is the precise UK government address I need to begin the process of taking up French residency? (I’ve already told the HMRC, and they said thanks a lot for letting us know. It took them 15 days to reply, and the links were all useless).

2. As I was only in the UK last tax year for eleven days, what form do I need to tell Her Majesty’s Rapacious Collectors I want me taxed at source back, squire?

3. What will my local Mairie want me to do, and will this be totally different to what the other 37,290 Mairies would say?

Anyone one would think I was Lee Harvey bloody Oswald trying to defect to the USSR.

Thank you so much. The reward for the best answer will be a place in Heaven.

Earlier at The Slog: All forms of starvation on the increase

21Comments

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1

John Ward on May 7, 2014 at 9:52 am

Extremely helpful, thanks. JW

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2

PhilE on May 7, 2014 at 8:43 am

The best advice for anyone seeking to break UK residence for income tax purposes is to sell your UK home and do not leave spouse or children in full time education in UK.

Inheritance Tax is base on domicile a totally different tax concept to residence. Breaking UK domicile of origin is even harder than breaking UK residence. One tip which can help is to have an explicit clause in your will expressing a wish to be buried/ cremated/leave your body to medical science in your adopted country which you hope will be accepted as your ‘domicile of choice’.

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3

John Ward – Old Bloke Requires Straightforward Help: An Appeal – 7 May 2014 | Lucas 2012 Infos on May 7, 2014 at 8:04 am

[…] http://www.hat4uk.wordpress.com / link to original article […]

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4

frenchnews1online on May 6, 2014 at 8:30 pm

You also need to declare all your worldwide income and all your foreign banks accounts to the French taxman, apply to have your UK national health benefits transferred into the French system and then obtain a Carte Vitale (most important thing you will ever do!) and take out a mutuelle to provide top up health care benefits including dentists. You’ll also need to ditch your UK vehicle which is just too much hassle to get regularised in France and buy a local one. Also advise the UK pension people of your change of residence and give them a french account into which to pay your state pension.Apply at your local marie for a voter registration card so can you vote in local and European elections and advise said marie that you are permanently resident so he can make sure you get notified of the ten thousand little taxes you will now be paying. Register with your local doctor as your medecin traitante so you get full health care rights.

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5

Alan Beishon on May 6, 2014 at 7:31 pm

Hallo Mate

You are clearly suffering from rather sophisticated expectations, taxation-wise!

As far as I can tell, there is no specific requirement to ‘declare’ your residency until you are in the French tax system. This you accomplish by asking the UK tax authorities in Newcastle for the forms to apply for Exemption from UK Income Tax under the UK/France Double Taxation Agreement. They send two copies of these forms – one to be completed in English and the other in French. You give both of these to the Hôtel des Impôts in Villeneuve sur Lot. They keep the French one and send the English one to the UK. You will subsequently be invited in March/April/May each year to complete annual French Tax Returns, either on paper or on-line, for the period from Jan – Dec of the previous year and, eventually, you will get a refund of any UK tax that subsequently gets deducted at source in the UK when, in hindsight, it should not have been. (This can take 6 months to a year, during which time you are in danger of paying tax in both systems before the UK refund comes through!) Thereafter any UK income should be paid to you with no tax deducted at source. You declare this in France in Euros based upon the actual exchange rates you achieved or on an average that the French tax office declares in January each year for the previous year. The UK may continue to send you self-assessment tax returns, primarily for you to declare your residency status and to tell them about any income that HAS to be taxed in the UK (rentals, dividends, etc). BTW: On the double taxation forms they (surprisingly) ask you if you want to keep your UK Personal Allowance – I said ‘Yes’, so my first c.£10K pa is not actually taxed! Any UK rental, dividend, etc income that has to be UK Taxed has to be declared in France, but is not directly taxed as such. They add it to the other incomes, such as state and private pensions, just for the purpose of determining which tax band you fall into.

Simple, init?

Any questions, just ask!!!

AB

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6

Steve on May 6, 2014 at 7:23 pm

Hi John, If you want to become a resident en France, as I understand it, you need to go to the French authorities, not the British ones, after all you´ll be living under French rules and regs. When I came to Brazil I had to go to the local Federal Police to apply for a permanancy visa so I would imagine that would be a similar thing you would have to do in France. Good luck.

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7

Ian W on May 6, 2014 at 6:40 pm

You have to ensure that the HMRC understand that you are Non Resident (not ordinarlly and Not Domiciled in UK (these are two different things). Just holding property in the UK can be seen as Tying you to UK. This section:

If you become not resident for UK tax

If you leave the UK and become ‘not resident’ you will pay UK tax only on your income and, in some circumstances, your capital gains from the UK.

But just because you leave the UK, it does not mean that you are automatically not resident. Your residence status will depend on:

the purpose of your time abroad
how often you visit the UK after you have left
the purpose of your visits to the UK
what connections you keep in the UK, such as family, property, business and social connections

From 6 April 2013 the rules that determine if someone is resident in the UK for tax purposes have been put on a statutory basis. These rules are known as the Statutory Residence Test (SRT). For the majority of people whether or not they are resident for tax purposes is quite straightforward under the test and their position will not change. For those with complex circumstances the SRT will provide more certainty about their residence status.

The section ‘Meaning of residence and how it affects tax’ provides further detail.

Meaning of residence and how it affects your tax

Tax on UK income or capital gains for non UK residents

RDR1 Residence, Domicile and the Remittance Basis (PDF 442K)

of http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/leave-uk.htm is the important one. From now on (and forever !!) you need to keep an explicit log with evidence if possible. of every visit to UK and the reason for the visit – point of entry and exit. The HMRC want to know how long each visit, (and its purpose), how many days in each tax year, and how many days in the previous 5 tax years you spent in UK.

The European tax authorities spend a lot of time trying to catch ‘travailleur frontalier’ or just frontalier. I have worked with people that kept logs of how many days in multiple EU states with the intention of being non resident anywhere, they would travel by long ferry crossings so they were outside the 3 mile limit at midnight reducing by a day their time in each country. This is an industry that the tax authorities are chasing – if you start looking like travailleur frontalier you will be their quarry. See http://www.europarl.europa.eu/workingpapers/soci/w16/summary_fr.htm

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8

John Ward on May 6, 2014 at 6:05 pm

Thanks BillK. Very useful.
J

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9

the ghost on May 6, 2014 at 5:56 pm

You need to come to the UK to fill a form in, wait 91 days to make the form you filled in superfluous & repeat year on year

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10

Bugger (the Panda) on May 6, 2014 at 5:35 pm

Get a bloody accountant, in Toulouse, not Agen, one versed in personal taxation of the Brits who work for Airbus.

Simples.

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11

Sarah on May 6, 2014 at 5:24 pm

I think you can register with the British Embassy in Paris. I suggest you go onto an excellent site full of expats called Survive France Network http://www.survivefrance.com which has an active forum and lots of useful information. There’ll be someone who’s done what you want to do already.

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12

kfc1404 on May 6, 2014 at 5:23 pm

Sounds like it isn’t an issue then!

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13

Sussexwino on May 6, 2014 at 5:21 pm

British Embassy in Paris doesn’t give a FF either…

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14

kfc1404 on May 6, 2014 at 5:11 pm

I suppose I would write to the British Embassy in France and let them worry about it!

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15

John problem on May 6, 2014 at 5:11 pm

1. You’ve done your stuff vis-a-vis HMRC. Sign on to pay tax in France – it’s less.
2. The mairie will be tres pleased to give you a bit of paper if you have ze residence en France.
3. Relax and read my magazine johnproblem.com to keep in touch with the lovely things you’ll miss in the UK,when you live en France permanent.
4. To win local hearts, use the subjunctive as often as you can.

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16

Sussexwino on May 6, 2014 at 5:07 pm

1) The Brititish Govt doesn’t give a s***.
Your French residency conundrum is NOT OF INTEREST to them. Wouldn’t bother telling them ANYTHING AT ALL.
2) ditto, all crap. Confide in your local French Taxman. He or she is of a far, far superior intellect and actually like and encourage you to attend a walk-in service every day in your local tax office. Really, I know!
3) Since the disappearance of the famous “Carte de Séjour” they, the French police and Gendarmerie (not at all the same thing), don’t want to know either…let it all rest. As long as you don’t do anything reprehensible and your driving licence and insurance is up to date you have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Were it all that simple here in Britain! Keep stchumm chum!

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17

BillK on May 6, 2014 at 5:02 pm

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/leave-uk.htm
Quote:
If you’re not required to fill in a tax return, you’ll have to complete form P85 ‘Leaving the UK – getting your tax right’ by following the link below. Please read the ‘About this form’ section on the form carefully before deciding whether or not you should complete it.
http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/forms/view.page?record=5Ay4eloD0nw&formid=766
————
State Pension if you retire abroad
https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/how-to-claim
—————-
If you are keeping British Nationality I don’t think anyone else is interested.

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18

Phil Manc on May 6, 2014 at 5:00 pm

They rely on your honesty! The less you say, the better! Let sleeping dogs lie. Worked for my dad! As you already know they’re not as clever as they would like you to think they are!

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19

sdbast on May 6, 2014 at 5:00 pm

Reblogged this on sdbast.

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20

Richard Gurney (@Tembo11RG) on May 6, 2014 at 4:52 pm

May not be quite what you want
http://abbisscadres.com/news/uk/uk-residence-not-broken.html

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21

Zen on May 6, 2014 at 4:48 pm

Divorce government!

Not had a brown envelope since 2005.

Freedom never tasted so good. :-)

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