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John Ward January 7, 2015 CHED EVANS: Not the account you're being given by the mainstream media

CHED EVANS: Not the account you’re being given by the mainstream media

chedOPEN & SHUT CASE…OR OPEN SEASON ON MEN?

Every now and then, campaigners lay themselves open to the wrath of those who are so tribal on certain subjects, it seems necessary to file them under deranged. As British culture and attitudes are closer to 24 carat insanity than most other nations in 2015, I do find myself writing stuff that evokes Believers’ Bile increasingly often now.

I’d love to smile benignly and say that the avalanche of hatred I get as a result of this is a badge of honour I wear with pride as the water glides off my sensitol lubricated duck’s back. But the truth is that the personal attacks one gets purely by asking people to be adult and thus (a) take responsibility and (b) have some compassion are at times crushing.

Anyway, my subject this time is twofold and relates to one man: the Welsh footballer Ched Evans. The two folds in my brain plasticity about this issue are first, the nature of the verdict; and second, the reaction of the progressive tendency since his release from prison.

On 30 May 2011, Wales international and Sheffield United player Ched Evans and another professional footballer Clayton McDonald were arrested on suspicion of the sexual assault of a woman in Rhyl, Denbighshire, following an incident at a Premier Inn in Rhuddlan on the same day. Two months later, they were charged with rape. Both strenuously denied the charge. The following April, they stood trial: Evans was found guilty, but McDonald was acquitted.

The alleged victim, a 19-year-old waitress, testified that she had drunk two glasses of wine, four double vodkas with lemonade, and a shot of sambuca. But she told police she “felt tipsy but not out of control”. She agreed that she had met McDonald casually on the street, and that he took her back to the hotel, where they were joined by Evans.

Later, the woman woke up ‘naked and confused’ in a hotel bed with no memory of anything since leaving a dancing session with friends the previous night. One could argue that after two glasses of wine, four double vodkas with lemonade – and a shot of sambuca – such confusion was less than surprising, but no: the alleged victim “suspected that her memory loss was due to a spiked drink”. Her somewhat cavalier self-diagnosis is still the only evidence we have that such a thing happened.

The only cast-iron chemical evidence we do have is that samples of her blood showed traces of cocaine and cannabis. She denied taking either on the night of the incident…because as we know, she was tipsy but not out of control: but on the other hand, she woke up suspecting a spiked drink. Cocaine and dope are not the drink-spiking substances of choice among date-rapists, I’m told.

The thing I find truly staggering from Judge Merfyn Hughes’s sentencing remarks is this extract:

“The complainant was 19 years of age and was extremely intoxicated. CCTV footage shows, in my view, the extent of her intoxication when she stumbled into your friend..”

Hang on a minute: let’s just get two things straight here. On the one hand, the jury has been told that the alleged victim suspected her drinks “had been spiked”. But on the other, we are told that before either accused had plied her with any drink at all “she was in no condition to have sexual intercourse”. Yet when filmed on that CCTV footage, she“felt tipsy but not out of control”.

I’m sorry, but something has to give here: either the Judge’s assessment of her condition was wrong – or she was wrong.

In the light of what the alleged victim admitted she’d drunk, I would respectfully submit the Judge (and jury, as it happens) were right about her condition, and she was wrong. So I am at a loss to understand why the woman’s suspicions of a spiked drink were taken seriously.

However, where I find the Judge’s legal extrapolation of her condition morally barmy is in this bit: “she was in no condition to have sexual intercourse”. Er, I’m sorry?

I have lost count – indeed, I don’t want to think about – the number of times I have stumbled into sexual and consensual intercourse with ladies who were just as drunk as I was. As Jilly Cooper once famously remarked, “Most sexual voyages sail upon a sea of alcohol”. Now, this doesn’t mean to say I would walk stone cold sober into a Welsh pub, have some pissed-as-a-fart lady fall upon me, and take full advantage of her: in my not entirely superficial experience, on the whole such things give me a case of the droop…..and anyway, the ladies normally fall asleep before anything untoward can happen. So if this is what happened, then quite frankly I do regard these two leather-sphere kickers as lower than vermin.

However, it seems to me that here we are dealing with a classic case of what personal responsibility means these days – regardless of gender. And as my view on the whole is that this is one of the many things our culture lacks, I shall plough on in order to dig myself a deeper and deeper hole of politically incorrect ignominy.

Young girl (but 19 years old, so not naïve) tumbles into semi-famous footballer and, having had quite a few sherberts, agrees to go to Hotel with him and have a few more. Slightly more famous footballer turns up, and more sherberts are imbued. Surprise, surprise – young girl wakes up later naked in bed in same room as aforementioned blokes. Why is she surprised that she’s had sex with them? And her answer is….they spiked my drinks. For which (I repeat) there is no pharmacological evidence whatsoever.

Consider the judges telling remarks to the jury again: “she was in no condition to have sexual intercourse. When you arrived at the hotel, you must have realised that.”

There are a number of disturbing assumptions in that lofty assessment.

1. Are women so completely without any sense of innate intelligence and control over their personal destiny that others must decide for them whether they’re in a state to have sex? I mean, how patronising is that?

2. The Judge is saying here that jerks like Evans and McDonald should be criminalised because they behaved like jerks. I do blame them bigtime for what happened….but one gets off, one gets given five years – and the woman gets to be the accuser. Don’t the three ways of that outcome at least strike the objective observer as eccentric to the point of being odd?

3. Judge Merfyn Hughes allowed for the alleged victim being pissed, but somehow this just isn’t on for the two blokes. How does the judge know that the men hadn’t gradually lost their inhibitions during a day of steady alcohol consumption? Why is a woman devoid of inhibition allowed to shout rape, but guys in the same condition are supposed to keep a clear head and take 200% of the responsibility for good behaviour?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And so to the second Act: the reaction to what masquerades as the aftermath of this case. Unfortunately, this forces me to discuss last Monday’s “article” by Suzanne Moore in the Guardian.

The piece was headed ‘No football club should touch Ched Evans, even if he does ever apologise’ – a view which makes me eternally glad I shall never need Ms Moore’s capacity for forgiveness to see me through. The subhead underneath then added:

‘The argument for rehabilitation and second chances simply don’t wash in such a high-profile case’.

I don’t normally indulge in Grammar Nazism, but I do have to point out here that the subject is ‘argument’ not ‘second chances’ and thus does not take the plural form of the verb. Now read these extracts from her piece and try not to weep with frustration for the casual, neo-fascist bigotry contained in the opinions:

‘I find the idea of this convicted rapist returning to professional football, by signing to Oldham Athletic, sickening….The talk of rehabilitation and second chances simply does not wash in Evans’s case…..This is, after all, a country where the number of rape allegations that end in a conviction on that charge is still shockingly low.’

Note the use of ‘convicted’ there….the same word always applied in any case these days to somehow add force to a flakey argument. Note the use of ‘does not wash’ with no rationale whatsoever to support the conclusion. Note the infantile assumption that low conviction rates for rape must mean that low misogynist cunning has conspired to produce that result.

On and on it goes:

‘The discussion revolves around victim blaming – thus we can have Michael Buerk telling us that the victim comes out of this with no credit, because she was drunk at the time of the attack….To be clear, this is not, as Evans presents it, a miscarriage of justice; his appeal was refused. It is currently being referred to the Criminal Cases Review Commission.’

Note yet again how Moore’s view is that the alleged victim’s shitfaced condition is irrelevant. Note that she proclaims it cannot be a miscarriage of justice. But note also how she is on the verge of hanging herself here by stating without reference to other procedures, “his appeal was refused”.

This is a gross misrepresentation of the truth: as long ago as November 2013, it was revealed that Evans had recruited a new legal team headed by ex-senior detective Russ Whitfield and appeals lawyer David Emanuel. In July 2014, he launched another appeal attempt via the Criminal Cases Review Commission. Following this, he was released from prison on 17 October 2014. And after his release, the Criminal Cases Review Commission announced that they were fast-tracking a review into his conviction.

The core point in all this is the robotic assumption of guilt, and – for me – the worrying bias in reporting by journalists with closed minds who wave half-baked conclusions around at random with only minimal investigation.

Still, those who live the sword must die by it. And so I present you this morning with these recorded facts from Wikipedia. In The Guardian in 1995, Moore falsely stated that Germaine Greer had undergone a hysterectomy at 25. She stood as an independent candidate for the constituency of Hackney North and Stoke Newington in the 2010 U.K General Election, finishing sixth with 0.6% of the vote. She has lived in the area for 20 years, and has three daughters by three different fathers.

I don’t have any right to cast aspersions on the basis of those recorded facts. I could look at her history, note she lives in Hokey Stokey, and think “That figures”. I could smirk at the fact that she’s lived in Stokey for 20 years – yet managed to get less than 1 in 200 of the electorate to vote for her. And of course, I could spot the three-kids-by-three-fathers notation and think, “Ah, right, hmmm”.

I don’t have the right to do any of those things, but I do so now to demonstrate to Suzanne Moore that she has no right to take a few flimsy, ill-considered allegations about Ched Evans, assume guilt on his part, and then present the legal decision as open-and-shut when it quite clearly isn’t. From top to bottom, the rape verdict against this obviously feckless twerp is riddled with holes, uncertainties – and worst of all, a Judge who thought that mouthing politically correct inanities could substitute for solid evidence to suggest guilt beyond any reasonable doubt.

The time will come a few years from now when people currently toddling about while throwing their food around the kitchen will read up on some of the contemporary assumptive tenets of delusional feminism, and wonder what on earth real people were saying about them. Sadly, that seems to me to be a long way off: in 2015 Britain, it seems OK for the progressive press to be judge and jury in the DSK case based on his deserved reputation as a droit de seigneur sex-pest….and also OK to take no cognisance whatsoever of a 19 year old woman’s lifestyle and outlook on casual sex. The liberal press has done both those things: it was proven 100% wrong in the case of DSK, and I suspect it may well be in the case of Ched Evans.

I haven’t named this woman, because the law says I mustn’t – even though others have. She has been the victim, it seems, of harassment: harassment by those determined to prove that their friend, boyfriend, prospective son-in-law and footballer has been the victim of false witness and witch-hunt mores. When campaigners feel that strongly, those they accuse will suffer harassment; Suzanne Moore positions that as mysoginist bullying, but then this is a journalist whose track-record on getting facts straight leaves something to be desired. For example in her Evans piece:

‘I see no need for Ched Evans to stop playing the beautiful game. There are parks and grounds all over the country. He is entitled to use his skills to make a living. He can coach.”

Wrong: as a now listed sex-offender, he can do none of those things.

And also:

‘on social media…..men say they would “Ched Evans that bird”. His name is therefore synonymous with – depending on how you see it – rape/forced sex/sex with a woman comatose with drink/a woman unable to consent…’

The idea that Evans should be held responsible for what braindead abusers on Twitter write is beneath contempt. Frankly, it’s just risible, hysterical third-rate journalism.

Everywhere one looks now in the mainstream media, Rolf Harris is referred to as “a convicted paedophile”. Several columnists have used the same descriptor for Dave Lee Travis and Stuart Hall.

All of these slurs are medically inaccurate, and will I think in the fullness of time be proved completely false on every other dimension. Jimmy Savile did not groom a nation, because such an achievement is palpably physically impossible. Cliff Richard was not at Elm House. Paul Gambacinni is not and never has been an abuser of under-ageboys, or a fan of group sex with rough trade. Jim Davis proved in his autobiography that there was illegal press collusion in trying to condemn him as a sex-offender.

Britain is turning into a mob-driven purveyor of disgraceful show trials. Some people are speaking out against this sort of thing, and others are directing traffic to the stoning. Ms Moore falls into the latter category.

New at The Slog: Human extinction by 2250

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Posted in CHED EVANS: Not the account you're being given by the mainstream media and tagged Ched Evans, Clayton McDonald, Judge Merfyn Hughes, Oldham Athletic director's daughter threatened with gang-rape, Personal repnsibility, Show trials, Suzanne Moore. Bookmark the permalink.

520Comments

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  1. 1
    dave simpson's avatar
    dave simpson on October 19, 2016 at 4:08 pm

    what a piece of shit this guy is

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  2. 2
    Ann's avatar
    Ann on May 2, 2016 at 3:21 pm

    Well there is a dilemma. In his interview with the police, ched Evans stated that he didn’t personally ask the woman in question for consent. So he admits she did not consent to him personally. He states consent was gained via a third party, (which btw does not constitute consent) in that McDonald asked if he could join in. McDonald, however, in his police interview stated that Evans specifically asked for consent personally, but is now making statements of support for Evans retrial that he will testify that he asked for consent on Evans behalf. Which means either he is lying now, or he lied to the police in the first place. if he goes with the new statement, he can be charged with obstruction of justice for lying to the police originally. Also going with that statement still does not mean Evans got first hand consent. But it boils down to whether he believed he had consent, not whether he actually got it.

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  3. 3
    Brian kay's avatar
    Brian kay on July 30, 2015 at 12:37 pm

    personally i think it’s a very good article.I personally think Evans comes across as a prick. Which he may or not be, however that is my personal opinion of him.But to convict him on the evidence is wrong.In my opinion either both men was guilty or both not guilty.Had i been on the jury i would have found both men not guilty.There behaviour could be considered questionable,however the same could also be said of a women going to a hotel room with 2 men she’d only just met.I would certainly have had plenty to say had it been my daughter! But questionable behaviour and stupidity is not a crime or a jailable offence .For those people who make comments such as “he’s shown no remorse” well he’s constantly protested his innocence so would it not be hypocritical of him to do that? The case needs to be reviewed or the debate will linger on.Don’t really care one way or the other but i must say if he’s guilty he’s a better actor than he is a footballer.

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  4. 4
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on July 2, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    ‘You don’t understand the law on consent’. Correct, I don’t: it lays all the responsibility onto men, and asks for none from the woman.

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  5. 5
    kat's avatar
    kat on July 1, 2015 at 11:02 pm

    and when she first encountered McDonald she was passed out in the doorway of a kebab shop. She may have testified that she was ‘tipsy’ because of all the victim blamers and their tendency to shout ‘well what do you expect if you get plastered?!’ Personally I have a higher opinion of men than that and don’t see every man as a potential rapist willing to have sex with you whether you want it or not.

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  6. 6
    kat's avatar
    kat on July 1, 2015 at 10:57 pm

    You don’t understand the law on consent. Ched Evans was convicted and McDonald wasn’t because McDonald was able to successfully raise the defence of reasonable belief in consent because he had spent a significant amount of time with the victim before the sexual intercourse. Ched could not avail himself of that defence because he entered the room while McDonald was having sex with her and proceeded to take over. The reason why extreme intoxication raises a presumption that consent is invalidated is because being excessively intoxicated inhibits your ability to consent. Yes the burden falls on men having drunken sex with women to ensure they have valid consent because men penetrate women. All those whinging about miffed women post casual sex – although you would likely be able to successfully raise the defence McDonald did if accused, why on earth are you so unconcerned with the happiness of your partners with your sexual experiences? It is this which may lead some of you to rape convictions, the belief that true consent of your partner is less important than your sexual satisfaction.

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  7. 7
    Ciaran Goggins's avatar
    goggzilla on March 3, 2015 at 7:46 pm

    I was involved in the “Justice For Ched” case almost from day one until recently. Many points arise from your excellent post. First “teenager”, she was a week away from her 20th birthday, not 13! Secondly, we are not putting her morality on trial, merely her veracity “Big Win”. Pink Mini. Finally all images of her in the public domain show her either GOING to a pub. IN a pub or LEAVING a pub. North Wales Police wanted a “high profile collar”.

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  8. 8
    Lorraine's avatar
    Lorraine on February 2, 2015 at 10:58 pm

    No one should be named BEFORE a trial of this kind. I agree with so many of the above comments-this topic is particularly fashionable at the moment. Even if he did this-which I do not believe for one second and that judge needs sacking- he has paid his dues. I hope, when this is appealed and won, he sues all those who slandered him including all the uptight feminist idiots who really are unbelievable. This was a drunken female hoping to make a name for herself by sleeping with semi famous men. Probably looked at Cheryl and Colleen etc and wanted a bit of that.

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  9. 9
    Don'tBelieveTheMedia's avatar
    Don'tBelieveTheMedia on January 30, 2015 at 4:14 am

    Here’s something that I think that could change the minds of people thinking he is guilty, all the facts and even the CCTV footage of this woman and Clayton entering the hotel, I can tell you this, she certainly does NOT look to be in a unfit state or “too drunk to consent” but well, that’s just my opinion after seeing this. http://chedevans.com/the-media Here’s the website, be the judge of it for yourself. And also this is a great piece of writing and I agree about the points on the media IE newspapers etc. They seem to just write stories siding with the “popular” opinion to gain more readers. The mainstream media is full of crap. And yeah anyone other rapist is just branded by their name and the word rapist, but because it’s a professional footballer, it suddenly becomes “Rapist footballer”

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  10. 10
    Jgm Contracts's avatar
    Jgm Contracts on January 19, 2015 at 10:03 am

    DAVID MILLIBAND commenting on this proves tnere is a clear political agenda to this in our cancerous PC media culture which is now taking control of our lives.

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  11. 11
    Martin Ellis's avatar
    Martin Ellis on January 17, 2015 at 8:09 pm

    DW – your hypothesis is plausible and I must admit I’d wondered just how the complainant got home that morning, with no handbag, no phone and presumably – no money. Rhuddlan is quite a long walk from Rhyl, depending on which part of Rhyl she lived in.

    However, I tend to prefer an alternative hypothesis, in which the complainant was actually telling the truth. She was drunk but in control when she arrived at the hotel with McDonald. She was dis-inhibited but had the capacity to make a free choice as to whether to have sex. The video of her leaving McDonald in the hotel foyer, to go outside unaided, and retrieve the pizza, tells its own story. As does the fact that when she turned round in the lobby, to go and get that pizza, she said something to McDonald. The hotel receptionist said that her speech was slurred, but not so slurred, that the receptionist could not understand precisely what she was saying “You’re not going to leave me are you” – from across the hotel lobby! Then according to the reports of the receptionist’s testimony in court – after Evans’s arrival, the receptionist went to check the room. From outside in the corridor, he said he could hear “screaming and panting”, such that he was in no doubt that people were having sex inside the room. He also said he heard a man asking the woman to perform a sex act.

    So just WHO was doing the screaming?

    Would a woman, who has lost the capacity to consent to sex, be screaming?

    What is the point in asking a woman to give you a blow job, if she’s unconscious?

    However, when she woke up after 11 am that morning, she had genuinely got no memory of what she’d been up to seven hours earlier.

    We must remember that from her own testimony, when she went to the police that evening, her main concern was that she’d lost her handbag and phone. Although she said she had no memory and thought her drink had been “spiked”, reading between the lines, it looks as though the thought she might actually have been raped had not crossed her mind.

    It was actually the POLICE, who decided she’s been raped and from then on they, and the CPS, were in the driving seat – desperate to secure a conviction, after TWO bloody noses in similar cases, where the complainant had self-inflicted the alcohol. The complainant was just being dragged along, although one might wonder if the complainant thought KERCHING!! when she was told by the police, that they believed she has been raped by a couple of well paid footballers!

    Given the above, I suspect that this will eventually go down as a prosecution which should never have been brought to court and that BOTH Evans and the complainant were victims of the police and CPS.

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  12. 12
    andy's avatar
    andy on January 16, 2015 at 11:20 pm

    I Was Brought up on the fairgrounds and when a girl came back to my trailer she knew it was not for coffee

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  13. 13
    jack's avatar
    jack on January 16, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    Quite frankly nobody should ever be convicted in the 21st century on opinion and not evidence. A travesty of justice.

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  14. 14
    DW's avatar
    DW on January 16, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    Could it be……

    The following morning ( 30/5/2011), the ‘victim’ wakes up with no handbag or mobile. She rings her Mum from reception to come and pick her up.

    Mother arrives and says something along the lines :- ‘ What happened to you?? How did you end up here??’ etc.

    Rather than horrify her mother with the truth, the victim replies ‘ Err, I don’t know , don’t remember, perhaps my drink was spiked ??’

    Is this where the memory loss/spiked drink story was created, bearing in mind the victim’s hungover and embarrassed state?

    Naturally her mother ( and probably, later in the day, friends who heard the same explanation) would say ‘ If you think your drink was spiked, you’d better go to the police….’

    At this stage, the victim has found herself in a bit of a hole – so she keeps digging.
    Instead of abandoning the memory loss/spiked drink story she sticks with it, later at the police station.

    And she has stuck with it to this day.

    Could she have been lying all this time – through the court hearings, Ched Evans’ imprisonment, his recent attempts to return to football? Had Clayton McDonald not been acquitted it would have been 2 innocent men imprisoned.

    Is this why she has refused all attempts at interviews, even refusing to discuss events with family members ( as reported by her father?) Not a refusal to ‘cash in’ on her story, more an avoidance of analysis that might highlight the holes in her story?

    Throughout the trial her answer to all questions about events after 3am was – ‘ I don’t remember, I don’t remember’.

    Would someone keep up this pretense for so long?

    I believe, possibly, yes. Particularly if they are a bit of a nutter.

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  15. 15
    Colboy's avatar
    Colboy on January 14, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    An excellent piece and a balanced argument. The world has gone crazy. Ched Evans deserves no praise for his actions but he does deserve the truth and a chance to move on.
    Colin_sharples@sky.com

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  16. 16
    Martin Ellis's avatar
    Martin Ellis on January 14, 2015 at 6:38 pm

    I think the Dougal case and the Bree case

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-445750/Im-rapist–just-fool.html

    give us a good insight as to why the prosecution in the McDonald/Evans case, pitched their case the way they did.

    In order to secure a conviction, it wouldn’t be sufficient to portray the complainant as not having given consent on account of being drunk; because it had already been established by the Dougal and Bree cases, that somebody who is drunk, can STILL consent to sex. As a result we now have a memorable phrase that as far as the law is concerned – “A drunken consent is still consent”!

    The prosecution in the McDonald/Evans case could not demonstrate that the complainant definitely did not consent to sex;

    a)because there was no evidence that sex had been forced on her
    b) because the complainant could not remember anything since she had left the night club over an hour before arriving at the hotel with McDonald
    and,
    c) she did not have any flashbacks of the sexual encounter itself (unlike the complainants in the Dougal and Bree cases).

    So she HAD to be portrayed as being SO drunk, that she was incapable of giving consent to sex at all. By implication therefore, she had to be incapable of consenting to sex with either of the accused and THAT was the prosecution’s case!

    In my view, despite the verdict on Evans, the prosecution did NOT prove beyond reasonable doubt, that the complainant WAS so drunk that she had lost the capacity to consent and this is backed up by the not guilty verdict on Clayton McDonald!

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  17. 17
    Bi's avatar
    Bi on January 14, 2015 at 11:03 am

    Women correction not wimmen. The law found this man guilty therefore no further comment from me. Alcohol is a depressant and all who imbibe too much ought to have more intelligence and not let himself or herself get involved in drunken situations. This is all so demeaning for all concerned but unfortunately for them their own fault.

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  18. 18
    jeannie ellis's avatar
    jeannie ellis on January 13, 2015 at 9:06 pm

    therein lies the problem in this case,you have to have proof beyond reasonable doubt to obtain a guilty verdict in britain and not an individual interpretation of the law,the law needs clarifying on this point,my opinion for what its worth if no violence or threat of violence is used and the accuser is deemed to have their wits about them as to the extent of saying the words,if you videotape this dont put it on facebook everybody will think im a slapper,well then they are capable of saying no,its as simple as that no,get off,i dont want to,
    the very people that are saying the law is an ass as the conviction rate is so low are now saying of course hes guilty hes been found guilty in a court of law and how can the law be wrong,make your minds up the courts are capable of making mistakes or their not,you cant class them as being infallible when you get the result you want and flawed when you dont

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  19. 19
    Martin Ellis's avatar
    Martin Ellis on January 13, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    For those interested, I’ve been trawling through press reports of the Ched Evans trial and I came across this earlier case with striking similarities to the Ched Evans case, but with a very different outcome!

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/nov/25/students.ukcrime

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  20. 20
    jeannie ellis's avatar
    jeannie ellis on January 13, 2015 at 1:53 am

    is it just me thats noticed that the anti ched evens brigade keep using phrases like END OF STORY,CASE CLOSED,THATS IT,SIMPLE AS THAT etc,
    if your so confident in your argument discuss the matter without trying to end the debate

    LikeLike

  21. 21
    Knitted Gandhi's avatar
    Knitted Gandhi on January 13, 2015 at 1:24 am

    Football, and sport in general, is petty, tribal, animalistic and divisive nonsense…as such I’d not heard about this case until someone posted a link on the Jill Havern forum this evening.

    I have no o[pinion one way or the other about anyone’s guilt or innocence. All I can say (for what it might be worth) is that I am a Hetero bloke and my very best friend of the last 14yrs has been a Hetero female. We look out for each other, (we like Bro and Sis) and on three occasions, in one single club in Maidstone, Kent, her drinks have been spiked. This is despite us ostensibly acting like ‘a couple’ and her never (after the 1st occasion) letting her ‘live’ drink get out of sight, (though obviously hat with dancing and drinking it gets hard to maintain a constant vigilance).

    We both like a booze… We have been there for each other through thick and thin, (her relationship break ups…and me having two kids and one marriage in the last decade). We know exactly how we react on alcohol… how much we’ve had (no matter how p*ssed) and no matter what we’ve done, or where, we’ve been. I’ve had my drink spiked once (maybe by accident as our glasses are invariably next to each other whilst we dance)…and she’s been spiked three times.

    Thankfully I’ve always been there for her (the one time with me she’s been there for me).

    We were told by the barstaff/management (after reporting it to them) on two occasions that the likely culprit was a bloke called “Date Rape Dave”, who had something to do with dispensing medicines at the hospital just outside Maidstone.

    We’ve no idea if that was the case.

    To us, now we’re old farts who make sure we boogie the night away within spitting distance of two single beds (as I said… we’re great chums and that;’s all), and party with people of a similar age, we don’t seem to have a problem. I’m just very, very, thankful that we were there for each other when needed.

    Sadly, it seems that people do ply drugs on random people… but where are the friends that should be looking out for each other?

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  22. 22
    Martin Ellis's avatar
    Martin Ellis on January 12, 2015 at 3:52 pm

    “krist” said -“The most telling thing in this i believe is the fact that she was aware at some point she was being videoed & panicked that it would get out & she’d be labelled a slapper…………………………………….. I think.it went wrong for her when she realised she was being videoed & thought she had to imply rape & as having no recollection…i think I would too if I thought I’d been videoed & wet the bed of a hotel room to save my embarrassment.”

    According to the press reporting of the trial; the evidence presented to the court, was that it was Clayton McDonald who became aware of giggling at the window, realized who was outside and got up to draw the curtains, at about the time Ched Evans entered the room. McDonald was specifically asked if he thought the complainant was aware she was being videoed and is reply was that he wasn’t sure.

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  23. 23
    jeannie's avatar
    jeannie on January 12, 2015 at 3:22 pm

    rebecca,if you actually go to the trouble of reading popular opinion on this subject youll find that opinion is split regardless of sex,theres as many women as men that believe she wasnt raped and theres as many men as women that believe she was,so save your childish girls verses boys rant for another day

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 12, 2015 at 3:14 pm

    Once you sort your spelling and grammar out JW, I will answer that!

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 12, 2015 at 3:11 pm

    What is this ‘sense of good behaviour’ you are talking about John?! Are you judging yourself by this behaviour? I hope not – that would make you an immense hypocrite!

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 12, 2015 at 3:07 pm

    Maybe we’re just being polite.

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 12, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    Is that all you’ve got in response to a well put argument John?! Good lord.

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 12, 2015 at 3:00 pm

    John, I’d be concerned that the majority of people who agree with you have the most appalling use of grammar! And it is one of your pet hates, right?!

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 12, 2015 at 2:52 pm

    So the middle class, white, privileged man only argues using slurs against someone’s education? Is that the only way you know how to attack someone who made a really logical point? Shame. Why don’t you get off your high grammar horse and reply to the point she is making instead?!

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 12, 2015 at 2:45 pm

    Excellent response Suzie. I note with interest that John has not replied to your logical and fact based argument.

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 12, 2015 at 2:40 pm

    No, they admitted leaving her there and Evans admitted leaving via the fire escape.

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 12, 2015 at 2:38 pm

    the cops don’t have anything to do with how long he is in prison for, he’s out because he behaved whilst inside.

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 12, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    Not repeatedly at all John! Only once and within the last week. Too little too late.

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 12, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    We’ve got one the lowest rape convictions in Europe so unfortunately, your statement is incorrect.

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 12, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    Please do read some facts before you start saying that women ‘use the law’ to ‘shirk responsibilities’. You’d be surprised at how much you’re buying into rape culture. http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/mythsampfacts2.php

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 12, 2015 at 2:24 pm

    quite so!

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    dw's avatar
    dw on January 12, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    Not sure if this has been covered but here goes:-

    What was the motivation for the ‘victim’ to go to the police the next evening?

    Could she have had a steady boyfriend by any chance? Or some other reason to worry about her reputation?

    This might explain the ‘ my drink was spiked, I don’t remember anything’ allegation – i.e. I had it off with 2 footballers last night when I was pissed. It seemed a good idea then, but now I am going to deny the whole thing.

    When she bumped into Clayton McDonald did she know who he was? Or are there lots of 6’6″ black professional footballers in the Rhyl / St Asaph area at 4am? I know the area quite well and he’d stand out a bit.

    Note she had the whole day at work to think her story up before going to the police that night.
    ‘ My drink was spiked, I don’t remember anything, I don’t know if I had intercourse with them or not’ is a bloody good alibi if you think about – she’s not admitting to anything.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 12, 2015 at 1:19 pm

    Think what u like, I’ve read all of it. I suggest you read a book on the subject of ‘reasonable doubt’.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 12, 2015 at 1:18 pm

    If you read the pieces I’ve posted about this, you’ll spot that I agree. But it is not a crime to be an asshole.

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    jeannie's avatar
    jeannie on January 12, 2015 at 11:02 am

    she still walked into a court room as the accuser,nobody made her,with no accuser theres no crime and no trial,is this yet another example of her not being control of a situation,unbelievable

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    victoria baker's avatar
    victoria baker on January 12, 2015 at 10:11 am

    Why has ched Evans been made an example of if that was my daughter id be so ashamed of to get in that state not now what happened then cry rape what sort of justice system would listen to this rubbish somone whole life and his families has been torn apart some silly tart who can’t hold her drink gets away with this crime makes other young girls in the same position think i don’t have to worry about my actions if i change my mind in the morning u can they made me shocking

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    Gary Mills's avatar
    Gary Mills on January 12, 2015 at 9:33 am

    I hope Ched’s appeal is successful I can’t
    believe a jury could find him guilty of
    rape on this evidence. Had he been tried
    in England I believe he would have been acquitted, the judge should be struck off for
    misleading the jury and for some of his remarks he’s an absolute disgrace.
    As for the so called victim be interesting
    to look into her passed.

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    Bill Martin's avatar
    Bill Martin on January 12, 2015 at 2:37 am

    Anybody who finds a work colleague having sex and then decides they want to join in is beneath contempt

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    andy's avatar
    andy on January 11, 2015 at 11:59 pm

    As a football fan and season ticket holder I can say that nothing any footballer has ever done both on or off the pitch has ever influenced anything I have ever done. And as a father of a 10 year old boy who plays, and is also a season ticket holder, neither has he. He knows that what happened that night is wrong as it’s my job as his ‘role model’ to teach him. And any parent whose children are influenced aren’t doing their jobs. So stop using this nonsensical role model argument as a stick to beat him with.

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    Lorraine's avatar
    Lorraine on January 11, 2015 at 10:27 pm

    There is a big difference between 2 drunk adults having sex & having a hazy memory of it, and a drunk girl agreeing to go home with one guy, his mate letting himself in the room uninvited & having a turn while his mates film it then leaving by the fire escape. I don’t think you have read the facts pf the case as you say she woke up with the men &she actually woke up alone & didn’t know what had happened. It wasn’t a case of they were all drinking & things got out of hand, one of them was sober enough to pretend to the receptionist he’d lost his room key then leave avoiding said receptionist.

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    Jon Curtis's avatar
    Jon Curtis on January 11, 2015 at 8:20 pm

    She could just as easily been bouncing up and down on his dick all night for all she knows. Would Ched say this though if it had happened that way….? If he wants to keep his girlfriend then surely she can cope with a drug fuelled shag better than something a bit more?

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    Arrun's avatar
    Arrun on January 11, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    You would claim an innocent man raped you to save yourself embarrassment. You disgust me.

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    Eliza O'Hara's avatar
    elizamohara on January 11, 2015 at 7:00 pm

    Reblogged this on Eliza O'Hara .

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    Nurse Gladys Emmanuel's avatar
    Nurse Gladys Emmanuel on January 11, 2015 at 2:13 pm

    Where is the Police investigation into the widely reported threats made to Evans victim? A handful of people were arrested and made to pay damages. Then we read of her having been forced to change her name 5 times and move. Surely the Police would be all over this like a rash as she is a confirmed victim, and a dire warning has gone unheeded. The lynch mob blames with impunity Ched Evans website, his family, his girlfriend, his fans….is there a shred of evidence for the assertion or the allegation? If there were why is it so secret? It seems the Police have yet to make a statement!

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    jeannie's avatar
    jeannie on January 11, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    spell check lol

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    jeannie's avatar
    jeannie on January 11, 2015 at 1:39 pm

    is there any reason why their shouldnt be a man defending him,its a profession where their are more men than women working in,the reason for this is that it is a middle class job and a lot of middle class women choose not to work,they would rather pick their own kids up from school rather than pay for a nanny to pick up jemima and tarquin,working class women dont have the same luxery

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 11, 2015 at 12:44 pm

    Roy
    This comment is a blessed relief of balanced argument. Thank you.

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    martin's avatar
    martin on January 11, 2015 at 11:36 am

    Ched guy has appealed his conviction twice now and both times he has been turned down.. Ched Evans had no consensual sex with a girl that is rape and what a surprise its a man defending him…

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    Alice's avatar
    Alice on January 11, 2015 at 10:58 am

    Firstly, he doesn’t have to be a role-model, a child can make the decision for him not to be, or a parent if the child is too young can do some parenting and teach him why he isn’t.
    Secondly, bodily mutilation is an extremely childish suggestion, you point to the state’s conviction of him as justification for him being undoubtedly guilty, then you surely should just as blindly accept that the state’s punishment of him is the right one.
    Let he who is without son cast the first stone. Whilst I’m in no way religious, this is my favourite biblical teaching. He may have raped the woman in question, but may also be a false accusation made on the basis of guilt for agreeing to have sex with 2 men in one night. Either way I’m not going to join the witch hunt of either of these people. That girl has to live with the memory of what happened that night, be it of consentual drunken fun she now regrets, or a disgusting act of rape. Evans has served time, and if he can adequately show he is rehabilitated, I see no reason why he shouldn’t be allowed back in to the world of football, there are no laws restricting such a thing happening.
    All of this is subject to his appeal too, everything could change soon.

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    krist's avatar
    krist on January 11, 2015 at 10:44 am

    I’ve read the r v Evans link, I’ve also watched the cctv footage & to me it doesn’t add up. As a woman who has had my drink spiked & been taken advantage of things just don’t ring true.

    When it happened to me I had very little recollection of the leaving the nightclub but remember taking my shoes off as I couldn’t walk in general let alone in heels! I kept bumping into doors & left my jacket there i realised the next day. I remember things in flash backs…it was my ex boyfriends brother that did it to me & to this day I can still see his face as he pulled down my trousers before I passed out. I vaguely remember getting home, by this time I couldn’t walk & crawled from the taxi to the house & crawled upstairs where I spent the night in the bathroom with my head down the toilet. The next day was a write off, the world was spinning, my head was banging & the flashbacks kept coming. The exs brother apologised & said he felt like a c**t for what he did…he knew what he’d done. I didn’t go to the police for the simple fact i couldn’t remember a great deal of anything much & i didn’t want the whole of my exs family getting at me.

    Now after seeing the cctv footage of this girl she doesn’t look massively intoxicated, also the blood tests didn’t show a massive amount of anything in her system…we all know she had taken cocaine & smoked weed previously as this showed up yet nothing else did. At no point retrieving the pizza did she look unsteady on her feet, she bent down fine, didn’t stagger & managed to negotiate the doors. She wasn’t having to be propped up by anyone to help her walkor guide her.

    The most telling thing in this i believe is the fact that she was aware at some point she was being videoed & panicked that it would get out & she’d be labelled a slapper. I believe she was pretty much aware what was going on, she wasn’t held down, beaten, bruised, she enjoyed the oral sex & penetrative sex it seems as the moaning was depicted as enjoyed sex noises. Had she been passed out when he got into the room then he was an idiot but she wasn’t she was engaging in sex. I think.it went wrong for her when she realised she was being videoed & thought she had to imply rape & as having no recollection…i think I would too if I thought I’d been videoed & wet the bed of a hotel room to save my embarrassment. The evidence is shady at best & he should never have been convicted!

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    Roy Smith's avatar
    Roy Smith on January 11, 2015 at 10:13 am

    An interesting and thought provoking article. Although I still feel that court case leaves little to dispute.

    The young girl was clearly very intoxicated. There is no evidence to suggest that both offenders were in an unstable state. This is not to suggest that they had plied her with drugs and alcohol, but from what I can gather, they had taken advantage of an individual in a vulnerable situation.

    She had got into a taxi with MacDonald knowing that they were going to a hotel (a room that was booked in advance by Rvans despite him living close by). MacDonald texted Evans to inform that ‘he had a bird’. Evans then lied to the hotel staff in order to obtain a key, to the room in which the complainant and MacDonald were having intercourse. A group of the offenders’ friends were outside attempting to film the incedent when Evans joined. MacDonald then left the hotel to go home via the main reception and Evans out of an emergency exit (why not leave through the main reception despite coming in that way?) leaving the girl alone.

    Whether or not she consented to the activities is very difficult to judge, but the behaviour of these men leave a sour taste.

    I absolutely agree that every individual should be responsible for their intake of alcohol on a night out. I would say that if both men were just as drunk then how on earth can you hold the male party(ies) responsible? But these men were not struggling to maintain balance or stumbling on the ground.

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    Paddy's avatar
    Paddy on January 11, 2015 at 9:10 am

    “Well I think females should be very scared of a man with morals such as yours”.

    Well Karen, I think the Male population should be afraid (And avoid at all costs) people like you, Jessica Ennis and of course the slag “Rape Victim”. Anyone who thinks it’s ok to shout rape after a night of sex (with 2 men, no less) to cost a man his livelihood is a very sick person. And people who support her for wrongly accusing this man clearly have a hatred of men and want to see the whole male population wrongly imprisoned.

    It seems you don’t know the difference between consensual sex and rape, nor did the judge.

    Tell me how she can tell the court it was consensual and then change her mind to “I may have been drugged”? I thought she would have been too intoxicated to tell the difference between drunk and drugged, how would she even remember?

    Also how come one of the men were found innocent and the other (Ched Evans) guilty? That is inconsistant for a judge who found her to be in no fit state to have consensual sex lol.

    She consented enough said.

    You need to get hold of the facts and make your own mind up about the verdict instead of just throwing stones.

    Consensual sex is consensual sex no matter how drunk you are.

    I’ll tell you what though. Next time I get absolutely plastered and have sex, I am going to go screaming rape to the courts just to give everyone a good laugh, because that’s what this case is; a joke!

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    Andeas's avatar
    Andeas on January 11, 2015 at 8:59 am

    May I suggest that before you make a comment that you visit Chef’s website, read all of it, watch the videos and then, AFTER HEARING BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY, post your comments.

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    Andeas's avatar
    Andeas on January 11, 2015 at 8:53 am

    Have you seen the video of the girl walking into the hotel with Ched’s friend? This was hours after her last drink. The jury could not see this video. The prosecution used it. They said it shows her out of control and unable to have consensual sex. Go to Chef’s website, watch the video, then tell me what you think.

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    Jane's avatar
    Jane on January 11, 2015 at 2:24 am

    There is a misconception above that she accused him of rape.

    She didn’t. She said she couldn’t remember what had happened.

    The case seems to have been driven by the police.

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    Bar Lloyd's avatar
    Bar Lloyd on January 11, 2015 at 1:55 am

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.crimeline.info%2Fcase%2Fr-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans&ei=qsmxVNSfJsz5aqmKgfAF&usg=AFQjCNHxmDvRwhHBuE3RLJxdnYuCcYu0XA A commercial (for reference purposes) analysis of the case itself and an earlier appeal that was refused. It is interesting how badly these lawyers communicate with words- the judge and the Appeal Court and also the analysis. It is as if they dont want outsiders to understand. Anyway I can now better see where some concerns about the interpretation of evidence and judge’s direction might suggest miscarriage. It also changed my understanding of the events of the night.Whatever the outcome of the current Appeal, this is not going to end prettily. If Appeal is found then half the world will think the judiciary has given into pressure, and if its not the other half will continue to think that the footballer is being scapegoated.

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    jeannie's avatar
    jeannie on January 11, 2015 at 1:01 am

    well said

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    jeannie's avatar
    jeannie on January 11, 2015 at 12:58 am

    shes not a young girl shes an adult,to call it rape because she didnt utter the word yes is absurd,its only rape if she utters the word no,thats falling just short of using a written consent form with a couple of witnesses

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    jeannie's avatar
    jeannie on January 11, 2015 at 12:49 am

    he didnt force her and he didnt pump her with alcohol,shes a grown woman,using phrases like pumping her with alcohol makes her sound like an unwilling child

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    ralfellis's avatar
    ralfellis on January 10, 2015 at 10:56 pm

    Nice analysis, John. A few of points for you:

    a. There should be two classes of rape, just as there are two classes of murder.

    b. If he has done his time, he should not be hounded by the feminist press. Or are these liberals now saying that every criminal should be hounded for the rest of his life, and sent to live in the gutters of society? Whatever happened to the liberal ideal of rehabilitation?

    c. In these cases of ‘rape’, a woman saying ‘no’ does not mean ‘no’. If ‘no’ means ‘no’, then I should still be a virgin, because every woman I have been with has said ‘no’. It goes like this:

    No, no, no, hmmm…. No, no, no, yesss…. No, no, no, deeper….

    So was that a no, or not? Perhaps the jury, who just happened to be at the bedside (just in case), can explain their decision for me……

    R

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    jeannie's avatar
    jeannie on January 10, 2015 at 10:53 pm

    this has gone beyond being just about ched evens any more its about societies view on women being victims of all things sexual,if a man woke up next to a woman in the morning with no recollection of the nights events has he been raped? of course not as all men are seen as sexual deviants in the british media and women have sex just to procreate (lying back and thinking of england) is one of many examples,women enjoy sex too you know and must take responsibilities for their own actions,ive never woken up in a bed next to a man i didnt know or ever would,id have to make a series of bad decisions to end up in that situation and take full responsibility for them,the best example i can give you of women being classed as victims of all things sexual is the sunbathing analogy,a man and a woman can be living next door to one another with a six foot fence seperating them,she can go out sunbathing nude one day and he could look over the fence and if she sees him she could have him arrested for being a peeping tom,then the next day he could go out sunbathing naked and she sticks her head over the fence and sees him naked she could have him arrested again this time for indecent exposure,in both cases shes assumed to be the victim,how is that possible in 2015,remember equal rights equals equal responsibilities,no cherry picking,women are not beyond criticism no matter how much they think they should be,i think the judge in this case likes women to be classed as victims ,maybe for sexual reasons,the thought of women being week and vulnerable might be a turn on for some men and it certainly suits women so i for one cant see this attitude coming to an end anytime soon

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    pam sadler's avatar
    pam sadler on January 10, 2015 at 10:12 pm

    Give him a chance there are to many young girls accusing innocent men of sex crimes, maybe if they didn’t get as much criminal injuries compensation they wouldn’t acuse men .they need to live life after going through being raped and how it affects your life .why is it that girls are never found guilty of sex crimes only men ,so young girls entice men and nothing happens to them,my son is currently serving a five year prison sentence for a sexcrime he didn’t commit .we are appealing ,I have conclusive evidence that my son is innocent and forensic evidence he didn’t do it, the law needs changing in the way young girls are accusing innocent men of these crimes and how these cases are brought to court .I currently have a govement e petition online to have the law changed over sex crimes yes there are people out there that are guilty.if you would like the law changed please sign the e petition.and a few last words I AM A SURVIVING RAPE VICTIM from when I was 16

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    Nurse Gladys Emmanuel's avatar
    Nurse Gladys Emmanuel on January 10, 2015 at 8:17 pm

    Are you an expert in the use of Rohypnol Ian? The victim was tested the next day after claiming her bag had been stolen, I am sure the Police in their excitement to catch a footballer (a category of criminal, it would appear due to media bias), would have taken their samples promptly. Now of course the media ignores the drugs which were in her system, a fraction of which in the system of anyone else they would be condemning and demanding a resignation if they failed to apologise!

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    Nurse Gladys Emmanuel's avatar
    Nurse Gladys Emmanuel on January 10, 2015 at 7:56 pm

    God I am sick and tired of hearing he was convicted by a jury in a court of law, his appeal was rejected, blah blah. So was Sam Hallam for a murder he did not commit because the Police could not be arsed to check his alibi and turn his phone on, proving he was miles away with his Grandmother. So was Timothy Evans, he didn’t get an appeal, he was hanged in part on the evidence of a serial killer with womens bodies stored all over his house. So was Michael Hickey, probably one of the most reviled child killers of his time, until it became apparent the Police had fabricated the case and allowed the initial prime suspect who knew Carl Bridgewater, who knew the victims, who knew the farm, who presented Police with evidence implicating Hickey and the others to go on and blast the head off a man, in the same manner as poor Carl Bridgewater.

    Ched Evans could clearly sob and beg forgiveness of the lynch mob and so called journalists, and other self promoters. The self publicists are deemed by the media luvvies to have more valuable opinions, and greater insight into all matters in law by virtue of being able to run a bit fast, or shove a microphone under a nose. (How unfortunate the hero Mike Tyson got away).
    Ched Evans could put his hands up, admit guilt, show contrition, lecture young men on the need for respect, the dangers of assumption, he could employ with ease media consultants to rebuild his career. He could even earn a healthy living writing lecturing on what he did wrong. His girlfriend (who the lynch mob feel free to abuse and pour their bile upon), could equally pour scorn upon him and explain why as a changed man she forgives him.

    And yet Evans who comes across as none too bright stays committed to the same unwavering line, which is simple. He did not rape her. He relentlessly sticks to this and takes the hard way, the uphill struggle against the lynch mob. In the same way Michael Hickey faced failed appeals, abuse, attacks and more hard times by refusing to admit his guilt. He stayed in prison for longer than he needed to trying to prove his innocence. It was years before his innocence was proved back when journalists were the likes of Paul Foot and not sound bite opportunists in a dead industry that looks to social media for it’s stories, it’s inspiration and it’s eventual demise.

    Ched Evans could well win his case. Then lets see if there is any analysis of the mob and it’s origins or any validity to it’s claims.

    Who identified Evans victim? The mob has even made the ludicrous claim that she is identified on his website, that his friends have hounded her to the extent she has changed her identity 5 times.

    She was identified by Sky, she was identified by people who knew her well, in her home town. Long before Evans had his website up. There is NO evidence to show Evans has in any way initiated the claimed hounding, supported it or participated in it. For sure if there was he would have been recalled to prison or not released. So the lynch mob resorts to “his website is hounding her”.The Daily Mail interviews her father and paints a sorry tale of her suffering and that of the family, but is there any factual proof of her suffering? Any factual proof of her changing her identity five times? (Forced by whom exactly). The Daily Mail carries the fear of the video on Ched Evans website. She is in NO way identified, and certainly not as clearly as in a previous article in the Mail which carries a pixelated picture of her and the hint that she is “from a well known family in Rhyl”. If there is fear of being identified you keep your head down rather than attract attention. The fear of the video is clearly not a fear of identification, but a fear of too many people viewing it. To my mind she does not look even “tipsy but under control” !
    A fear of the video and Ched Evans not apologising, admitting his guilt quickly, and fully in order to get on with his career seems to be the driving force and the lynch mob has overtaken this and made it the must have Mangina rant, with even Rob Bonnet of the BBC simpering that Sheffield had not apologised for considering lawful employment.

    Perhaps the fear is one of perjury and ultimate exposure, not to mention damages. It will be an apology fetish festival that day for the luvvies.

    Does the victim support the mob taking up her cause? There ironically is an implied consent in the actions of the mob!

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    Ssssh's avatar
    Ssssh on January 10, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    To all those who are using his status as a ‘Convicted Rapist’ as somehow proof of his guilt i’d like to remind you all that the policeman responsible for Eric Garner’s death was never indicted. “What does that have to do with the Ched Evans case?” I hear you ask? Well, nothing, other than the notion that the law and those who enforce it are not infallible. Someone who is found guilty in a court of law can be done so unjustly. Sometimes the guilty walk free, sometimes innocents are declared guilty, this is a fact.

    The only thing Ched Evans is guilty of is being an asshole

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    Richard Taylor's avatar
    Richard Taylor on January 10, 2015 at 2:41 pm

    I don’t know why but I’ve decided to leave my thoughts on this stream. I’ve read with ever growing anger and despair some of the vile ramblings that some have chosen to add and now it’s my turn!
    I think Mr Evans and friend are guilty of being nieve to adult responsibility! The young lady was no more or less guilty of what happened as they didn’t pour the cocaine or drink down her throat and to be honest in my opinion if she can remember exactly how many drinks etc she had indulged upon after that quantity she’s either very good at holding aforementioned alcohol and drugs or a liar?? I think the latter is true but as with the jury in the case I can’t be sure?!
    For this reason alone these stupid footballers should both be found not guilty because so much of this is circumstantial instead of factual. I’m not saying these men are innocent but to be given a criminal record is harsh and if this punishment is just reward frontier actions then again in my opinion so should she be guilty! Of wasting public time and money!!

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    cindy williams's avatar
    cindy williams on January 10, 2015 at 2:38 pm

    The Welsh newspapers carried numerous stories a few years ago highlighting the yob drinking culture amongst young Welsh international footballers who when out clubbing were prone to take advantages of girls forcing them into alleys behind clubs and in toilets etc. in clubs. They also identified a young player who was paying prostitutes to allow him to suck their toes and lick their feet. All the players were named and evidently not shamed.Worth a read before you pass comment about events you claim to have knowlege of but obviously no appreciation of this odious toad, who, also “for a laugh” shot one of his close friends. I think a few people, yourself included, are trying to defend the indefensible.
    Evan’s team, for he is too thick to think himself, advised him to blame mob rule. Common sense will tell you that the majority of people opposed to evans are of that opinion because they believe he committed a vile crime.
    It took Evans, until a couple of days ago, to distance himself from the thugs and bully bouys who had pursued and villified the victim in defence of Evans.
    As for alleged death threats to staff at Oldham, that , if true, is horrendous, but I have seen no statement that the police have nothing reported to them for investigation.

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    Martin Ellis's avatar
    Martin Ellis on January 10, 2015 at 1:26 pm

    JW, can you point me in the direction of a copy of the court transcript for the original trial please?

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  74. 74
    Elly x's avatar
    Elly x on January 10, 2015 at 12:59 pm

    But that’s what I think we should discuss as a society- not whether or not he is guilty, that’s ludicrous- we should instead look at what sort of expectations we have for celebrities, or ok, just for athletes in particular. Athletes have access to vulnerable people because of the nature of their job and its high profile, should we make them clear a DBS check the way we would any teacher, judge or social worker? He is out on license, if he was a normal member of society he would be greatly restricted in his career choices because of this conviction and would have a very difficult time working with vulnerable people. Why then would we assume its ok for him to continue a career in sport while he is out on license?

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  75. 75
    Elly x's avatar
    Elly x on January 10, 2015 at 12:44 pm

    Sounds like someone is worried about their own actions here – as this is not the scenario in the Ched Evans case, nor is it a scenario I’ve ever experienced (although you seem to pretend to know my sexual history).

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  76. 76
    altitudemonster's avatar
    altitudemonster on January 10, 2015 at 11:56 am

    I think the thing we have to assume about this case is that she probably had fallen asleep or was to the point of unconsciousness when she was being taken advantage of. Thats what the judge and jury decided. Its what the evidence points to. McDonald was already having sex with her when Evans entered the room. McDonald left while Evans was having his go. Evans left twenty minutes later leaving her to wake up alone in a strange place. That stinks of rape to me. I think youre putting too much emphasis on her claim she was spiked. From reports it doesnt sound as if the judge seriously thought shed been spiked by either of the men. The issue is the predatory aspect of their actions. Picking a drunk girl of the street and the sleazy text from mcdonald to evans on the cab ride to the hotel (‘got a bird’). The media reaction and scorn is disproportionate but thats the way the media is. Judy finnigan didnt help that…

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  77. 77
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 11:55 am

    Oh dear oh dear oh dear, dear, dear Great Britain, whatever happened to your powers of analysis and discernment.

    ‘…..A woman can choose to go to a hotel room if she wants, for whatever reason: to drink, kiss, mess around, this does not mean she wants to have intercourse. And if by the time Ched Evans decided he wanted to have sex with her, she was too out of it to know what was happening or to give her consent then yes, this is rape and he deserves everything he gets…’

    Tell me, where exactly is the female’s sense of good behaviour, personal responsibilty, and slef-discipline in this construct? Or all those things solely up to me, because you’re all too….or forget it, I can’t be arsed.

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  78. 78
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 11:52 am

    Oh, right Speedy. Sorry. Sorry. No, you’re right. I just just shut up. After all, your argument is clear: concise, persuasive, and polite. So I’ll just shut up.

    PS Stop effing about Harriet, we know it’s you.

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  79. 79
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 11:48 am

    Should I tell you why plainly? BECAUSE THE TO GUYS ADMITTED THEY’D HAD SEX WITH HER. It really is that simple.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 11:47 am

    The surreal leaping ‘logic’ of this comment beggars belief.

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    VVV's avatar
    VVV on January 10, 2015 at 11:27 am

    His time is not served. He is out on licence. For as much as you say that women shouldn’t drink thus make themselves vulnerable, you need to look at what they are vulnerable to; rape. Why can’t men just not rape? There would be nothing for women to be vulnerable to, then, would there?
    She did not accuse either of anything when she went to the police. She did not “cry rape” (though she would have had just cause to). She went to the police to report her handbag as stolen. The police picked up the case from there. The police, the CPS, the jury and the judge ALL decided there was enough evidence to convict him. The victim had nothing to be ashamed of, nor did she have any relationship to be concerned with “cheating” accusations. Only Ched Evans cheated that night. The victim has been subject to horrendous abuse, threats etc since this happened. She has had to be moved into hiding twice because she has been named – despite being entitled to protection/anonymity by law. Ched Evans and his legal team don’t seem particularly bothered about that aspect of law either. This has nothing to do with feminism and everything to do with men’s football culture, and the inability of some men to just keep their penises to themselves (and to their partner). Would suggest you review the case files again and review your “facts”. I don’t much care for Suzanne Moore, or her brand of journalism either, for what it’s worth.

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  82. 82
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:40 am

    Just a few final points for one and all:

    1. ‘No means no’. I agree. This lady can’t even remember if she said no or not.
    2. ‘Date rape drugs’: the sole evidence for these is her somewhat cavalier conclusion.
    3. Yes, I have read the court transcripts.
    4. No, I’m not disgusting, misogynist, a rapist, a sex offender, ignorant, or a woman.
    5. Evans and McDonald are two utter shits, but that isn’t against the law. If it was, the House of Commons would be empty by next Tuesday.
    6. I am accused of insulting only those who insulted me first. Reprehensible behaviour on my part, I plead guilty.
    7. Most of you will have noticed a pattern among the mob: ‘how dare you, insult, aspersion, assertion, insult, my name (as if I’d forgotten it) insult, assertion, threat, insult.’
    8. I openly admit that the Wimmin terrify me, for I think them deranged.

    To all those who kept a civil tone and made some excellent points, thank you. To the 219 of you who ruined this thread, fuck off.

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  83. 83
    R's avatar
    R on January 10, 2015 at 10:35 am

    Why are so many people saying that the justice system is corrupt, you don’t know what happened, he didn’t do it? Well do you know what there are 3 people who know what happened and that is it. You or I were not there, neither was the judge, the jury, his girlfriend, her dad, none of us were so stop defending somebody who you “don’t think is a rapist” just because you have come to that decision. You can say that when he actually gets an appeal through court and you find out if it was true. In my opinion he still seems like a vile man having sex with a girl who was drunk and drugged up, consenting or not, while his girlfriend was at home none the wiser. It’s innocent UNTIL proven guilty, not after.

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    R's avatar
    R on January 10, 2015 at 10:29 am

    Hypocritical of moore to attack evans? It’s not hypocritical because she isn’t a convicted rapist.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:27 am

    For the 51st time, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrttggggggggggggggggggggggggg.

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    Scott Summerlin's avatar
    Scott Summerlin on January 10, 2015 at 10:27 am

    Rebecca, IF you’ve read the evidence and honestly conclude, beyond doubt, that Ched Evans definitely raped that girl you either have appalling analytical skills or you just hate men. Having read the evidence, as presented in court, myself, I can concur that John’s article is very far from ill-informed. It’s actually spot-on. I can only hope that more people like John start getting some home truths out there without being shouted/shut down by some women every time who are very misguidedly picking this case as a women’s right issue. Those of you that do and are being very lynch-mob/fascist about (fascist in the sense that you’re attempting to shut down any opinion being voiced that doesn’t match the populist one of “Ched Evans is a monster”) are seriously running the risk of ruining your entire cause if/when his conviction is over-turned. The problem with self-righteous, moralistic campaigns is if you pick the wrong flagship, no-one will ever take you seriously again.

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  87. 87
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:26 am

    For the 50th time this morning, BEING AN ARSEHOLE IS NOT A CRIMINAL OFFENCE. Please try and understand this before one of us dies.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:24 am

    The law does not protect any of us any more anon, but thank you for being so upfront with your identity…it’s so completely in keeping with ‘the law’.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:23 am

    Ah yes, “I gave up readin it so I now feel qualified to commnt.

    I’m going to get down on all fours now and have one more try at explaining this very simple argument, OK?

    Ched Evans and his mate are a despicable pair of arseholes who treated this girl during the night as if she were a slab of meat. Yes, I have read the transcripts. No, I do not think rap has been anywhere near proven.
    That’s it.
    I’m bored of moderating immoderate garbage.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:20 am

    Why is it that all you naysayers feel the need to tell me my name? Most odd.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:20 am

    Yes, definitely a jihadist – always very ken on the removal of body parts.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:19 am

    No love, his problem is he’s got a dick.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:18 am

    More illiterate drivel consistent with the case against.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:16 am

    Are you by any chance a member of ISIS?

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:16 am

    test

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:15 am

    Not being a decent man is not a criminal offence just yet. If it was, the H of Commons would empty overnight.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:14 am

    …and the urrent on is being fast-tracked.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:13 am

    Nice use of screamrs there, more punctuation and verbs would help.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:12 am

    Cobblers from end to end. She ALLEGES they’d gone when she woke up.
    And I know the full strength of what these two aresholes did to her. I agree with your last point, but why do you need the assumptive insults?

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:10 am

    What case exactly is it that you’re resting? A headcase? A basket case? You’d get some respect from me if you could explain why my version of personal responsibility is at fault.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:07 am

    Ah the sweet smell of a groundless aspersion in the morning. Tll me, do you prefer them cold?

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:04 am

    Excellent Brandon, keep up this level of debate and you’ll make senior school. One day.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:02 am

    I think they were a pair of prats who should’ve got 6 mnths each….and for her, probation.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 10:01 am

    So tell me Jamie, if all opinions on his convictions were irrelevant, how would he gain redress if innocent?

    The trouble with fascists is they never think beyond the next fox to be hunted by dogs.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 10, 2015 at 9:59 am

    Well good morning Rebecca and thank you so much for keeping up the feminist level of debate.

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    Rebecca's avatar
    Rebecca on January 10, 2015 at 8:43 am

    This is a disgusting, ill informed, misogynist rant. Go and read the case and the evidence, not Wikipedia you ignorant fool. You will see that half of your conclusions are wrong and precisely what is wrong with the county when it comes to attitudes about rape.

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  107. 107
    Jamie's avatar
    Jamie on January 10, 2015 at 6:21 am

    We have that right because as a convicted criminal he is considered a liability.

    You cannot allow a paedofile who has served his sentence to work with children. Just as I believe you can’t allow someone who is convicted of a crime like rape to be a role model.

    I do believe there are grounds for the review of his case, however currently he is classed as a convicted rapist and on that basis the subjective opinions on his conviction are irrelevant.

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  108. 108
    Jamie's avatar
    Jamie on January 10, 2015 at 6:08 am

    The problem with your answer is that if you were a practising solicitor or barrister who was convicted of this crime, you would not be able resume working in that capacity upon release, irrespective of rehabilitation.

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  109. 109
    marko's avatar
    marko on January 10, 2015 at 2:14 am

    Yeah she got shagged by both, Ched came back while she was at it and asked to join in and she said yes, she probably enjoyed it but regretted it the next morning, not rape at all

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    David Knipe's avatar
    David Knipe on January 10, 2015 at 12:00 am

    Your faith in our criminal justice system is, err… touching.

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    Stuart's avatar
    Stuart on January 9, 2015 at 11:59 pm

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2345614/Brian-Banks-Female-student-falsely-claimed-footballer-raped-10-years-ago-forced-pay-2-6million-school-district—just-got-signed-Atlanta-Falcons.html

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  112. 112
    Chris's avatar
    Chris on January 9, 2015 at 11:48 pm

    The main point in this debate is not the verdict returned by the jury, but rather the hypocrisy in the ‘ media’. Ched is being vilified in the press, and by anonymous critics and commentators. The conviction is spent, he has to be permitted to work in any profession in which he’s legally entitled. The law doesn’t prevent him from playing football, so what right does anyone have to campaign against him. Otherwise ‘society’ is claiming a right of discrimination against people in the public eye.
    Worse yet, is the treatment of the PFA chief Gordon Taylor, he dares to criticize the accepted orthodoxy that Ched can never again play football, makes a considered and reasonable comparison (in the context of football) to aspects of the Hillsborough case – certainly not offensive comments, and immediately faces calls for his resignation. The same faceless mob, again, receive a welcome platform in our appallingly fawning and pathetic whimpering pandering apologetic and politically correct whining feminist leftist media, desperate to lop another head in the ‘public limelight’.

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  113. 113
    David Mayer's avatar
    David Mayer on January 9, 2015 at 10:43 pm

    the point isn’t if he commuted the rape or not it’s the fact that he’s served time for the alleged rape and so now he should be allowed to get on with his career. Everyone will always know what’s happened and that’s something he will have to live with so people should butt out and let him get on with it. The FA should butt out and the club should just re sign him and get him back into match fit condition and let him play.

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    tronyourbike's avatar
    tronyourbike on January 9, 2015 at 10:09 pm

    The girl was estimated to be 2.5x over the drink drive limit. A pint puts the average man at the limit, maybe just over, so 2 and a half pints downed would put you at the same level or higher than the woman involved. That would certainly make you drunk, but unable to remember the previous night’s activities? No chance. Especially when taken in the context of her recollection of the number of double vodkas she had consumed. The CCTV of her entry to the hotel is also quite damning as she forgets a pizza outside and then returns to pick it up, her cognitive functions obviously weren’t that impaired at this point.

    My second concern revolves around the acquittal of the first guy. If the woman is decided to be incapable of consenting why is he not guilty too? The whole case seems odd.

    For what it’s worth, I too think the whole thing is sordid and all involved should be ashamed.

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    Brandon's avatar
    Brandon on January 9, 2015 at 9:39 pm

    John Ward- You sure have a lot to say about the subject. You must have written about a hundred comments on this thread defending a rapist and insulting anyone who disagrees with your warped thinking. Get a life. It’s probably because you are a rapist, so you feel the need to defend a rapist. He was convicted of rape. Get over it.

    And just to refresh your memory…one of your many brilliant comments- “‘Women have the right to say NO at any point.’ That is something I believe too. When I was young, we used to call them prick-teasers. I also believe they were exactly that.
    Women know they have ultimate power.”

    DOUCHE!

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  116. 116
    Brandon's avatar
    Brandon on January 9, 2015 at 9:30 pm

    Wow John Ward-“‘Women have the right to say NO at any point.’ That is something I believe too. When I was young, we used to call them prick-teasers. I also believe they were exactly that.
    Women know they have ultimate power.” You’re a pig, bro.

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  117. 117
    Stewart bagwell's avatar
    Stewart bagwell on January 9, 2015 at 9:25 pm

    You are completely avoiding the issue. He was not proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The court’s decision holds not truth to whether he is truly innocent or not.

    Courtrooms are places where truth, justice, logic and ethics go to die.

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  118. 118
    Paddy's avatar
    Paddy on January 9, 2015 at 8:45 pm

    I absolutely agree.

    We often hear the term “Misogynist” thrown about by the Feminazi’s, but what about the sheer Misandry showing towards men?

    A few years back a football pundit referred to a female lines”man” as having to be needed in the kitchen and was sacked from his job; his name was Andy Gray IIRC. We can’t have jokes about woman you see; or democracy.

    Very unprofessional of him, but was it worth his job? That is an attack on democracy.

    I really feel sorry for Ched Evans and feel he has been wrongly convicted.

    Why is it ok for a woman to cry rape after feeling bad about having consensual sex with 2 men?

    We hear “she was too drunk to consent”. Maybe the whole 3 parties involved were “too drunk” to make responsible decisions, and therefore it’s a none case, since the court was informed she consented!

    All this “I think I was spiked, sniff sniff” carp is beyond sickening. If she was too intoxicated to consent in the 1st place, then how the hell can she possibly remember and allege that?

    I think she saw an opportune moment to make some £.

    Back to the Misandry and active witch hunt against men.

    The likes of Jessica Ennis and her ilk coming out in support of people who make false allegations is frightening.

    It’s like they support women who have consensual sex to come out and make wrongful allegations against people and have men up and down the UK wrongfully behind bars. Now that’s Misandry!

    These witch hunters should be ashamed.

    And the people who belief it should be as well for not being able to think critically and make their own conclusions about the matter; they just like to gobble up everything they are told like it’s all gospel.

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  119. 119
    ian koz's avatar
    ian koz on January 9, 2015 at 8:15 pm

    not all date rape drugs can be tested for, rohypnol leaves the system within 12 hours of ingestion

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    snowbunnie1980's avatar
    snowbunnie1980 on January 9, 2015 at 8:09 pm

    Shame shame shame John Ward. But you’re not to be trusted on the subject of women are you?

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  121. 121
    Miles Pardoe's avatar
    Miles Pardoe on January 9, 2015 at 8:00 pm

    1)The Justice system is corrupt and that’s a fact
    2) He’s merely pointing out that it is hypocritical of Moore to attack Evans
    3)Evans SHOULD be able to play football again. People say criminals don’t try and move on with their lifes but Evans is being attacked for trying to find a new job
    4) This entire thing is a British media witch hunt

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  122. 122
    rob's avatar
    rob on January 9, 2015 at 7:16 pm

    if she was that bad you would not dash in the middle of the night to take advantage of someone in that state and cheat on your girlfriend ched is a scumbag wouldnt be in this postion if whats in his pants ruled his head

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  123. 123
    Michael West's avatar
    Michael West on January 9, 2015 at 6:42 pm

    “‘Women who drink alcohol are clearly vulnerable’. And that’s the bloke’s fault, is it?” – John Ward.
    I rest my case, you’re a nasty little apologist for rape and if you cant see that, please, stay away from women.

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  124. 124
    mary's avatar
    mary on January 9, 2015 at 6:41 pm

    here here John we are all responsible for are actions or we should be if you can,t take it don,t drink it
    never put yourself in a situation that your not in control of seen the video sorry nothing wrong with this gold digger

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  125. 125
    Michael West's avatar
    Michael West on January 9, 2015 at 6:16 pm

    So if someone is drunk you have no qualms about raping them. Nasty bastard.

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  126. 126
    Steve King's avatar
    Steve King on January 9, 2015 at 6:16 pm

    He clearly hasn’t read the full case as he makes a couple of mistakes. For example, he alludes to the victim “waking up with two blokes” but that didn’t happen. They left and she woke up alone.

    Furthermore he doesn’t understand the law. Clayton McDonald was acquitted because the girl went back with him which was argued as implied consent. Evans however, just turned up unannounced and joined in (there was no subsequent drinking session as put forward in the article, so another example he hasn’t read the case properly).

    This case doesn’t ban drunk men from having sex with drunk women as its author implies; it says if your mate pulls a bird who’s pissed out of her head and takes her home and shags her, you can’t turn up unannounced and just assume you can join in.

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    Rob Cordon's avatar
    Rob Cordon on January 9, 2015 at 5:37 pm

    He didn’t do it…the law is a complete ass…I hope he goes on to score many goals.

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  128. 128
    George Bradshaw's avatar
    George Bradshaw on January 9, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    Test

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  129. 129
    George Bradshaw's avatar
    George Bradshaw on January 9, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    There have been proven hundreds of cases in the US of people being sentenced to death for a crime they didn’t commit, by an Independent jury. Questioning judicial outcomes shouldn’t be an abberition from the norm, just like accepting what all authority says (arguably indoctrination with the hypocrisy of government) shouldn’t be the norm. I’m not choosing either side in this case, but don’t take what has happened as empirical fact, just because a dozen people said so.

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  130. 130
    steve's avatar
    steve on January 9, 2015 at 3:39 pm

    Question to every one on here . Are we to say that the Justice System of this country has always got every case put to it 100% correct and people who have claimed to have been a victim of a crime are always truthful and correct about the insentient that took place . i am not saying the young lady was wrong about the accounts of what happened , just that if she was so so sure that she was in control why on earth did she go to a hotel room alone with a man she had only just met , I just hope that everything said by the young lady was a correct account of what happed because if not i feel it may come back to cause her much trouble in her future life .

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  131. 131
    Steve's avatar
    Steve on January 9, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    There are 3 simple points to this whole story.

    1. Drink responsibly. The girl put herself in danger by getting drunk in the first place (legally, it was agreed she was drunk).

    2. Rape is wrong, and the person, if found guilty, should serve the time decided by the judge and jury, unless otherwise acquitted (he was released early based on new evidence, but still served time).

    3. We as people, have a small window of opportunity to do the right thing.

    When someone has served the time they were judged to be fair for the crime they committed, they have EVERY RIGHT to go back into the world to live, and at least try to get back to some sort of lifestyle. They have been judged fairly, and do not deserved to be judged again, unless of course they reoffend, which isn’t the case here.

    This is not about a second chances. This is about people growing up and realising we have a moral obligation to be good, and do the right thing.

    We cannot just use someones past mistakes as an excuse to make another. You can’t justify wrong actions with wrong actions.

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  132. 132
    jonni marsh's avatar
    jonni marsh on January 9, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    Are women so completely without any sense of innate intelligence and control over their personal destiny that others must decide for them whether they’re in a state to have sex?

    This is not at all what anyone is suggesting and surely you must be aware of that. Whether it happened or not the judge/jury decided that the woman couldn’t and didn’t consent to the sexual intercourse with Ched Evans.A woman passed out on her bed for example is unable to consent to sex and I’m sure you’d agree this has absolutely nothing to do with personal destiny or intelligence. You accuse Moore of poor journalism but you’re more than happy create ideas based on your own very bad interpretation of how rape is treated by our judicial system – and then apply them as fact. But I don’t think anyone can actually believe the above statement is reflective of reality even you!

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  133. 133
    LJ's avatar
    LJ on January 9, 2015 at 3:18 pm

    The fact is that none of us were present during the trial so we don’t have the full picture. Until such time as his conviction is successfully overturned, all we have to go on is his conviction for Rape. He is a convicted rapist. However, there is very little point in releasing someone from prison if they are then totally unable to earn a living for themselves.
    In terms of the technicalities of the charge of Rape – consent has to be clear and explicit. In other words if someone is so intoxicated that they cannot clearly give consent, then the person having sex with them is committing rape. Basically, don’t take advantage of someone who is too out of it to know what they’re doing.

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  134. 134
    Leigh Warhurst's avatar
    Leigh Warhurst on January 9, 2015 at 2:40 pm

    If they were sober then why were they using taxis? Clayton McDonald used a taxi to travel to the hotel with the girl. Ched Evans was in a taxi when he received the text message.

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  135. 135
    andrew's avatar
    andrew on January 9, 2015 at 2:38 pm

    his been stitched up-no doubt about that

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  136. 136
    Paul's avatar
    Paul on January 9, 2015 at 2:06 pm

    Sanity at last

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  137. 137
    Simon's avatar
    Simon on January 9, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    Obviously nobody wants to see rape go unpunished. I can’t imagine what it’s like for people who are raped and it seems a lot of rape cases don’t get a conviction for one reason or another and that is a tragedy.

    My issue with the Ched Evans case is, evidence and testimony available to the public would suggest that she wasn’t too drunk to consent when she entered the hotel, the level of alcohol in her blood the next day didn’t suggest she blackout drunk, and I assume we’d know if she’d been spiked (but she did have cannabis and cocaine in her system), allegedly her Facebook messages to friends after the incident weren’t available as she’d deleted them and the messages she deleted from twitter point to her mind state and character. It appears to me (i’ll admit I likely don’t know the whole story) that they chose to believe her story over Evans and MacDonald with no reasonable doubt, even with a ‘reasonable’ amount of evidence supporting them. I think it’s more likely Evans is just an arsehole and not a rapist.

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  138. 138
    Steve's avatar
    Steve on January 9, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    The comments you attribute to the judge regarding her state of inebriation were made during sentencing, not to the jury prior to the verdict. This is a very important distinction. The traces of cannabis and cocaine were, in the expert testimony, described as having been consistent with consumption several days earlier, not on the night in question.

    Evans has had a request for appeal turned down twice.

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  139. 139
    RandomObserver's avatar
    RandomObserver on January 9, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    And to confirm, my opinion is that whether i believe the claimants story had inconsistencies does not mean that Ched Evans did not rape this young women. I am only stating that the evidence against him is used in a manner that I feel is unfair considering in our legal system you should be innocent unless proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt, therefore the claimant has admitted having no memory of these events that means there is room for a reasonable doubt in her assertion that she knowingly did not provide consent to perform sexual intercourse with Mr Evans.

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  140. 140
    RandomObserver's avatar
    RandomObserver on January 9, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    This is a woman who had large volumes of alcohol, cocaine and Cannabis in her system, which conveniently wasn’t from the night in question which is probably rubbish!

    She had been in sound enough mind to then find herself to a kebab shop and make the conscious decision to buy a large pizza which she ordered but was not in a sober enough state of mind with which to decide if she wanted to join a young man at a hotel and perform sexual acts with him only a few minutes later, having been very drunk myself at times i don’t understand how between a period of 20 minutes you become incapable of making decisions.

    No reasonable individual who I have met would have even agreed to go back to the hotel if they were in such a drunken state as the victim claims to be!
    Although it is not for me to decide who is guilty or innocent, there have clearly been inconsistencies with the claimants story, and it really is far to easy for a woman who has made an embarrassing mistake to call rape as a way of vindicating herself from any poor decision making and justify her actions to family and friends.

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  141. 141
    Elly x's avatar
    Elly x on January 9, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    I am trusting that the jury were presented with the facts when they came to their verdict.

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    Leigh Warhurst's avatar
    Leigh Warhurst on January 9, 2015 at 1:21 pm

    So if she didn’t ‘cry rape’ why were they charged?

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  143. 143
    Dave Aye's avatar
    Dave Aye on January 9, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    You can have your livelihood taken away in many professions for this kind of offence.

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  144. 144
    Dave Aye's avatar
    Dave Aye on January 9, 2015 at 1:19 pm

    You’ve already made your mind up though.

    “If Ched is innocent and proven by appeal”

    So if he is, you’ll believe this verdict, but not the original one.

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  145. 145
    Dave Aye's avatar
    Dave Aye on January 9, 2015 at 1:18 pm

    Even if she did consent, Evans morals and character have more than been brought into question. I don’t feel much sympath for him.

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  146. 146
    Dave Aye's avatar
    Dave Aye on January 9, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    If they take advantage of it then yes. I’ve turned down sex on a number of occasions because I didn’t think the girl was in the right state.

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  147. 147
    Dave Aye's avatar
    Dave Aye on January 9, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    “their opinion has always been that unquestionable evidence (normally in the form of DNA) ”

    No DNA was needed both men admitted they’d had sex with her.

    “If the ‘victim’ in question claims only to have a hazy memory of awaking naked in the bed, NOT specifically recalling the rape having taken place then there should be no case to answer to.”

    As a law graduate, you’d know about intent and Evans intent from when he heard that his mate had got a girl was to head to the hotel, sneak in the room, have sex with her (consent or not) and sneak out. Whether she remembered or not as nothing to do with it.

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  148. 148
    richardmilton's avatar
    richardmilton on January 9, 2015 at 1:12 pm

    This is ill-thought out drivel. Any decent man, drunk or sober, who finds a drunken woman in the street, does NOT take her to a hotel, give her more drink, invite his friend to come over and join in the fun, and then take turns to shag the drunken woman. Everything else you’ve written is smoke and mirrors. The only injustice here is that one of the men got off.

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  149. 149
    Dave Aye's avatar
    Dave Aye on January 9, 2015 at 1:07 pm

    Because she went to the room with one guy and initiated sex, whilst the other guy sneaked in after blagging a key card to the room and sneaked back out through the fire exit before the girl woke up.

    Also, the two guys stories about whether she consented with Evans were different.

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  150. 150
    Speedy Jahan's avatar
    Speedy Jahan on January 9, 2015 at 12:50 pm

    Shut up John ward just shut up yeah !

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  151. 151
    Jonno77's avatar
    Jonno77 on January 9, 2015 at 12:50 pm

    Completely agree with this article. Is every guy who’s ever had sex with a girl who’s drunk a rapist? There is no evidence in this case to show a sexual assault here, arguably the girl in question may regret her actions from the previous night/morning but that does not mean she was raped. Personal responsibility for ALL those (including the girl) is key, and there is NO evidence to suggest the girl was anything other than consenting in this. The guy has served his time as agreed by our country’s legal system and its my belief looking at the evidence that this conviction should…. And probably will be overturned, it seems a ridiculous conviction to sentence a guy to rape on what appears to be a girls blurred testimony where she can’t actually remember anything….. Crazy.

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  152. 152
    Speedy Jahan's avatar
    Speedy Jahan on January 9, 2015 at 12:48 pm

    No he hasn’t served his time he got 5year n done 2 1/2 year out of it ! He wants his knackers chopping off

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  153. 153
    Speedy Jahan's avatar
    Speedy Jahan on January 9, 2015 at 12:46 pm

    This shit shud stay in jail to do the rest of his 5 year not playing football ! Thinks cause he’s famous n has money he can treat women like dogs

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  154. 154
    Cruyff's avatar
    Cruyff on January 9, 2015 at 12:44 pm

    Coveniently left out the incriminating facts. Evans had been sent a text by his friend when he and the victim were in the taxi, ‘I’ve got a bird’. Evans turns up later at the hotel and doesn’t actually have the key for the room that he’d booked earler that day so that he and his mate could find a ‘bird’ to have sex with. Evans has to beg a porter to let him into the room. He went into the room sober, yes Evans is SOBER, there’s a drunk girl on the bed, then he has a choice. Sadly for him, he still thinks it’s a good idea to continue and have sex with her. That’s why he has been convicted of rape. If you read the two appeals that he’s had turned down already, then you would know this.

    Do not dress something up as factual when you have left out the evidence which secured a custodial sentence.

    https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

    Regardless of whether you think he was convicted rightly or wrongly, his behaviour was disgraceful. He went into the room of sound mind and he made the wrong choice, and yet he has shown no contrition whatsoever. It seems you and and Evans have very low opnion of women, perhaps it’s time to take a look at yourselves.

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  155. 155
    Albino Galuppini's avatar
    Albino Galuppini on January 9, 2015 at 12:42 pm

    What is happening now, if you can read Italian:

    https://pianetax.wordpress.com/2015/01/09/caccia-ai-terroristi-in-diretta/

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  156. 156
    Kate's avatar
    Kate on January 9, 2015 at 12:14 pm

    John Ward your attitude in this article is absolutely disgusting, and not just yours but the attitudes of some of the men and women commenting too. Newsflash: just because a woman goes back to a hotel room does not mean she wants to have sex. I think some of you have the impression that a rapist is someone who waits in a dark alley until a woman is going past and grabs her and forces himself on her. Well no, you’re wrong. A rapist is anyone who has sex with someone where there is no consent. So maybe there was no fight in the hotel room that night, no struggle to get him off her. Maybe the young girl in question did not actually say the word “no”. But maybe she also didn’t say “yes”, because she just wasn’t able to.

    You are championing the attitude that women, by their own behaviour, “are asking for it”. If a woman wears a short skirt and gets harassed- she’s asking for it. If she flirts with someone and he comes on too strong- she was asking for it. Wake up please. A woman can choose to go to a hotel room if she wants, for whatever reason: to drink, kiss, mess around, this does not mean she wants to have intercourse. And if by the time Ched Evans decided he wanted to have sex with her, she was too out of it to know what was happening or to give her consent then yes, this is rape and he deserves everything he gets.

    “Surprise, surprise – young girl wakes up later naked in bed in same room as aforementioned blokes. Why is she surprised that she’s had sex with them?” Why is she surprised? Because she didn’t want to have sex with them perhaps, did that ever cross your mind?

    So many women are raped every week and don’t come forward because they’re afraid they won’t be believed. Or even worse they’re afraid that people will think it was their fault. And it’s no wonder with articles like this. I really hope you don’t have a daughter or granddaughter that ever has to go through this, and if you do at least have the courtesy to hide your doubts from her.

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  157. 157
    JTC's avatar
    JTC on January 9, 2015 at 11:57 am

    Whether or not he committed the crime, having served his sentence should now be aloud to continue with his chosen career. Or have we become a society where the convicted are branded and punished for eternity.

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  158. 158
    Ark's avatar
    Ark on January 9, 2015 at 11:48 am

    If you believe he is innocent then prove it. Go ahead and prove he is innocent. Otherwise you are being complacent to an injustice and that makes you a contributor to it.

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  159. 159
    Deborah jane's avatar
    Deborah jane on January 9, 2015 at 11:08 am

    He is a role model to our children . Yes this is tit for tat , his word against hers . But lessons need to be learn . The hard way for both I think . Next he will think about his actions as I will cost him a lot . She may not have much to lose . Time to grow up !!!!

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  160. 160
    Sean's avatar
    Sean on January 9, 2015 at 10:50 am

    basically she was starry eyed flirtacious an off her head on cocaine, drink an cannabis did give consent an waded into the two footballers…….. Regret an rape are two very different words

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  161. 161
    marx's avatar
    marx on January 9, 2015 at 10:37 am

    So the very same logic applies to the droves of men found innocent… That’ll upset this feminist community.

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  162. 162
    Ryan's avatar
    Ryan on January 9, 2015 at 10:35 am

    There is no indication that his actions are justified. I mean who justifies rape? The point is the whole trial looks shady, he may be guilty, he may not. Nobody knows, the judge may have made a mistake. The article also points out why does Ched take all the responsibility? Was he not as intoxicated as she was; if Ched was to rape her could McDonald not have done something to stop him. So many things could have happened and plenty of it could have been prevented.
    As for him going back into football, well why not? “because he is a role model” and “he is a bad influence on kids” now i’m not a parent but im also not an idiot, i dont see a professional footballer and go “oh look he raped somebody and now plays for Oldham, if i rape somebody it’s ok” i think everybody knows that rape is wrong. How many other sports stars have been in the limelight for illegal activites. Drugs, sex scandals, racism and assault have all occurred and all have passed.
    Also he can’t not be employed for simply being a racist; Criminal Rehabilitation Act.

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  163. 163
    Brian hanstock's avatar
    Brian hanstock on January 9, 2015 at 10:24 am

    First I like to ask if you have read the court transcripts and if so where did you read them or have you done your resererch on the net . And this start with the real evidence .truth the real court report all shit written by Utd fans desperate for success and pining their hopes on ched .as he was found guilty of rape he also lost appeals unless every one involved in the case was swfc fans it seems strange with the best lawyers in the country he can’t win any of the hearings. And when you keep arguing points .you miss a few bits out one of them is why did ched pre book a hotel room 2 mins from family home then both of them separately leave and return to the home doesn’t prove he raped her but it does prove he was determined to take a girl back but she wasn’t with ched he turned up later how without having meet her no she would be ok with it and then why was there another member of is party outside that didn’t come with ether of the two accused you also said she was to drunk and falling all over the place but you think she instigated it all and the men was dragged along I don’t think so. I know they can get phone records back do you think it is possible that judge and jury was allowed to list to the alledged rawest phone calls but through data protection no one else was. And don’t you think in a country that lets a lot of dangerous Crims of to save money locking them up would lock someone up for that long with out some evidence get a reality check mate

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  164. 164
    anon's avatar
    anon on January 9, 2015 at 10:24 am

    If he was a teacher, and not a footballer, would you want him teaching your children? I sure as he’ll wouldn’t!! In the eyes of the law, he was found guilty, not everyone who ‘serves their time’ is rehabilitated, the judge and jury, despite what any a mitre thinks, found enough evidence to find him guilty or rape, RAPE, forcing himself onto a woman that did not want to have sex with him, i find people’s disregard to the seriousness of the implications that such an act has on a woman, regardless of her state of mind or circumstances, just blows my mind!! He was found guilty, therefor, he IS guilty, and I’d rather die than have a convicted rapist in the open and seen as an acceptable role model for my child, perhaps some wouldn’t mind their sons thinking it’s ok to treat a drunk girl like a peice of meat to put his filthy hands all over, but a little news flash, its disgusting, and those of you that’s daughters get too drunk one jig, that happen to run into a lad, id hope you would wish for them to put her in a taxi home or let her sleep it off in rather than clearly pump her with more alcohol and god knows what else, strip her naked and rape her. Some people need to get a grip. It’s an inexcusable thing to do to anyone of any sex and of any age, just because this girl was drunk and of a legal age it does NOT make it ok for anyone to take ad vantage, and just because this rapist has a bit if talent kicking a ball around a field for an obscure amount of money, it does not excuse him for his crime, neither does the time he spent in prison, a life time in prison isn’t enough to excuse anyone for destroying someone else’s life, and now that he is getting I taste if what this girls life is like, people are feeking sorry for him. Well not me. In my opinion, he should rot in a cell and have his little Chad cur off!!!!

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  165. 165
    Lily Foster's avatar
    Lily Foster on January 9, 2015 at 10:12 am

    ‘Not the account you’re being fed in the media’ and ‘open season on men’ both interesting arguments but in this case not justified if you read the official summary of the case.

    https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

    Chad Evans isn’t any kind of victim. He’s just another rapist.

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  166. 166
    chris's avatar
    chris on January 9, 2015 at 10:11 am

    perspective needed ok no evidence of date rape drugs only bit of pot and cocaine!!!!
    surely evans and his so called partner in crime being proffesional footballers would have been drug tested so they clearly had not been using these drugs.
    why would was she so willing to enter the hotel perhaps to have more drinks and i believe she was willing to go along with anything that would indulge her selfish needs so more likely she was so pissed and up for it then done the dirty deed passed out and woke up ashamed and perhaps knowing if she played her cards right for what ever reason whether it be money or infatuation,
    or was it that she had a boyfriend and to deal with the guilt she screamed rape.
    although i condone rape absolutely strict sentences are needed.
    but on the other side of the fence there is this there are a fair few high profile sports people that have been involved with same sort of offences but this one is strange as the other footballer got of with nothing.
    did the other footballer give evidence against evans thats why he was convicted if so then the outcome was correct.

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  167. 167
    geroskar's avatar
    geroskar on January 9, 2015 at 10:08 am

    John Ward…… Women do not have ultimate power when they are being raped.

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  168. 168
    Roberts's avatar
    Roberts on January 9, 2015 at 9:57 am

    That’s why she would have had a toxicology report, that would confirm roughly how much she had drank, irregularities ? Such as ? Are the courts that naive now are they ? Do you know how many real rapes there are in Britain, 85,000 a year, speculation then yes fine, but how dare anyone that are just sitting in the chairs at home offering false information and judgments when the only people that do know anything are the people concerned and the police, he has been convicted but what that’s not enough for you ? What will you say if he is convicted next time ? What your all failing to realise is that this girl has been treated disgustingly and well let’s say Evans has used his fame to make it in to a circus act, do you actually think this has done any good for anyone, the nxt person that’s raped, you think there going to go to the police, so she/he can be called a lier ? Guilty or not, he should have waited to see if he would be cleared, it will take a year tops, but no he couldn’t do that. This thing has made me sick, everyone has an opinion but what good is this doing anyone ? It’s dangerous and well shocking that all the good work has been waisted. I do hope everyone is pleased and hope to god it never happens to you, cos remember it’s not like anyone will believe you now, it’s so hard to prove it and people haven’t given a shit as long as it wasn’t them, now that’s really interesting to follow isn’t it, well done and hope you feel proud of what you have achieved, just to say hey look at me I’m another one that just wants to give a thoughtless remark. ( that bit was to the people that plastered it all over Facebook)

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  169. 169
    millsy's avatar
    millsy on January 9, 2015 at 9:56 am

    I say get him jeremy kyle for a lie detector test,more people believe in that than word of mouth,lets face it,it cant get any worse,if he lied he has done his time,if he is innocent people might look at different.

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  170. 170
    Ian Walmsley's avatar
    Ian Walmsley on January 9, 2015 at 9:37 am

    If you’re going to insult someone, at least learn to spell; otherwise you look just as ignorant as you think they are !

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  171. 171
    Gouldy's avatar
    Gouldy on January 9, 2015 at 9:25 am

    The fact Ched is constantly in the media and admitting to cheating on his partner and relentlessly contesting his innocence and WILL get his name cleared of the charge I guarantee it !!!! And the fact he has sat down with 2 groups of board members from 2 different football clubs and spoke to them and they ALL clearly believe him as both clubs have started negotiations in an attempt to sign him , leads me to strongly believe that they merely had a good night at the hotel and the next day she felt worthless and was clearly on a come down from the Charlie she’d been sniffing and cracking up because she smokes weed too !!!! Probably panicked too and now simply can’t go back on what she has said , or i could be way out and Ched Evans has more front than Blackpool

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  172. 172
    Speedy jahan's avatar
    Speedy jahan on January 9, 2015 at 9:14 am

    He s a rapist simple he shud be castrated so he can’t have sex again never mind playing football ! A soldier only no,s the army & if he or she did what he did could they serve in the forces again , NO

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  173. 173
    victoria baker's avatar
    victoria baker on January 9, 2015 at 9:01 am

    I think that girl has a lot to answer to she has ruined his life i don’t no much about football but from the point of a normal person they would not have been treated like this because of who he is they have tried to make an example of him but they have got wrong

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  174. 174
    Amy's avatar
    Amy on January 9, 2015 at 8:57 am

    One of the most ridiculous articles I’ve read on the subject. In fact, I had to check I wasn’t on ChedEvans.com.

    Our legal system decided the outcome based on the facts presented to them. So unless you were in that courtroom day on day then your opinion on the verdict is irrelevant. As is mine, because we don’t know everything. Ched Evans was convicted so unless the legal system says otherwise, he is a rapist.

    As a convicted rapist why on earth should he be allowed to return to the privileged position of being a footballer? It is complete privilege to be held in a position like that as football is an incredibly selfish sport. Supporters go and, in the moment, base their opinion of someone on how many goals they score. If players are good, they’ll earn millions. Young men then idolize these footballers which is completely fine: in fact most are incredibly passionate about helping people and doing good. Some go out and get drunk, sleep around but a high proportion of lads (and girls!) in their 20s will do that anyway. But what if one of these men is a rapist? Would you want your son or daughter to idolize a rapist? No, of course you wouldn’t.

    If Ched wants to work, he can. But he has no right to return to his life as it was before. After all, look how that ended for him the first time. Nobody released from prison walks into their previous job and picks up where they left off. Rightly, they need to re-earn and re-learn their place in society. The lady he raped has had to do exactly the sane thing. Except she’s had to leave her family to go under protection. And she’s the victim.

    People’s view of what rape is varies from person to person. Where the line is. But we should be coming together to stop rape happening. Regardless of your opinion this woman felt she was raped. A jury agreed with her, but countless don’t even get to trial because there isn’t enough evidence. To get a conviction is quite a feat for somebody with, according to you, such ill conceived evidence. Or here’s an idea: she was raped.

    Nobody should be raped. She can lead you on all bloody evening, be wearing a short skirt, be incredibly intixicated: but unless she says yes you shouldn’t be laying a damn finger on her. Same goes for anyone really, in any circumstance. Unless the person you want to have intercourse with says yes, don’t touch them. Yes, that might leave you sexually frustrated but tough shit. Worse yet, those disgusting people threatening to gang rape a certain staff member from Oldham’s family member: REALLY?!?

    I am against rape. And this should be highlighting the case for preventing rape.

    Now, John Ward, I talk directly to you. You’ve created another forum to discuss this topic. You have then gone and insulted everybody who has posted a comment you disagree with. Just stop it. Everybody thinks differently, and having such a big divide in thoughts shows how contentious issues like this are. Attacking Suzanne Moore personally doesn’t change what she said, which you clearly disagree with, but you did the same thing so stop being a hypocrite.

    Your closing remarks read like you think rape doesn’t happen. That everyone who has gone through this terrible ordeal and tried to get justice for it is a liar. It’s that kind of opinion that petrifies victims so they don’t come forward. Whether that’s what you meant or not, that’s how it reads to me and will probably countless others. I’d ask you take a moment to think about how you’d feel if one of your mother, father, daughter, son, sister, brother, aunt, uncle or cousin were raped. Because it could happen to anyone. Would you still think the same of rape court trials then?

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  175. 175
    Jordanna's avatar
    Jordanna on January 9, 2015 at 8:40 am

    Well said! And what date rapists have told you they aren’t the drugs of choice. What a ridiculous thing to say about drugs. They are illegal drugs for a reason and if she did not take them then she was obviously plied with it. To question the drug is just clawing at anything you can. They took advantage of a young girl, and just because she is 19 does not mean she isn’t naive!

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  176. 176
    Colin Thomas's avatar
    Colin Thomas on January 9, 2015 at 8:34 am

    I couldn’t read any more, It is all hogwash, take a few steps back, who sold this young woman the booze, are they not responsible too? And who says that if all parties are equally intoxicated it cannot be deemed as consensual sex, this girl has a whale of a time getting drunk and wandering the streets meeting like minded people then willingly doing goodness knows what with these two drunken young men and suddenly wakes up and has total recall as to her state the previous evening and because she’s embarrassed at what people may think, maybe? Suddenly decides her drink has been spiked and some arbitrary young man who happened upon her is accused and convicted of rape, life changing! Who has the right to be holier than though with reall understanding and considering real life situations and facts? It’s time the pubs and clubs took some responsibility and this young lady had a little more of a responsible attitude. How can anyone be blamed for being allowed to act and behave in a drunken manner in public, the system needs to take account of this surely?

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  177. 177
    Stephen's avatar
    Stephen on January 9, 2015 at 8:21 am

    Too many holes in the legal argument. Armchair Barristers aside, this trial requires a re examination, if only to address he or she the victim……..could the jury of got it wrong or did the judge err…….the evidence is not hard enough.

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  178. 178
    Anon's avatar
    Anon on January 9, 2015 at 7:50 am

    Why are you surprised or shocked that he was convicted of rape? – please get a criminal law textbook and read about the mens rea and actus reus for rape and you shall see why the conviction occurred. She was so heavily intoxicated that in the law of England and Wales she could not give full consent, even if she was partly coherent she couldn’t make a fully informed judgement thus she did not consent. Additionally, intoxication is not a defence to rape. So really you take issue with the criminal legal system regarding the offence of rape. The law is a set a rules that are applied to individual cases and you may not agree with the outcome but it is consistent with the established precedence. It may upset you further that there is no offence of rape for women as the perpetrator. Whether or not you think the law is fair the facts are that,in law, she did not and could not consent.

    I cannot comment on the spiking drink element.

    Please do not belittle the terrible experience of a young woman. Especially when you haven’t bothered to enquire what the law of our country is – the law that protects us all.

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  179. 179
    Steve's avatar
    Steve on January 9, 2015 at 7:12 am

    In no way shape or form am I agreeing that rape is right. The down side for me is the evidence is inconclusive in this trial. Its very controdicting. Ive been drunk on many occasions where I cannot remember what happened the night before. On photos tell the story. Too drunk to say yes, too drunk to say no. How can anyone be convicted on that. It surely was a mob ruling that has ruined his life. This makes a mockery on the British judice system. Why otherwise would there be such a massive debate on it? Im not saying he did not rape her but there is not solid evidence to suggest he did. And in Britain you are innocent until proven guilty. This in a conviction on someones word and would seem the jury has fallen for the sob story. Seems a bit like XFactor!

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  180. 180
    Mark Thomas's avatar
    Mark Thomas on January 9, 2015 at 7:05 am

    Well said 100% correct. He is not an ‘alleged’ rapist. He is a rapist, all these people need to stop second guessing the system. If he has a case the judge directed the jury outside of remit the appeal system is there. However 2 years later he remains a convicted rapist who people are saying should walk down a tunnel holding the hand of a young mascot when representing me and my country around the world. Not in my name, ever!

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  181. 181
    Tye's avatar
    Tye on January 9, 2015 at 6:44 am

    I belive NO means No in whatever case

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  182. 182
    Dean St Clair's avatar
    Dean St Clair on January 9, 2015 at 5:36 am

    Well Well Well !!! He’s been convicted !! Let me explain something, this man has done time in jail for rape which he was convicted of, also, when you put yourself in a position of being in the public eye you have to be anal about the people you interact with, if the young lady was pissed why would you be looking to have sex with someone who is that pissed knowing your position, knowing that this type of thing has happened to plenty of people in his surroundings ie. football, why put yourself where this could arise and I’m quite sure he had and still has the same girlfriend, so if your going to cheat, then get caught up in this, who have you got to blame but himself, is this not the case ??? If he is with someone why is he disrespecting his partner by cheating ?? This is his Karma, for the consequences of his actions, I’m very respectful in regards to females whom have had a lot of drink and would be skeptical to even contemplate doing anything with her if shes that drunk, because she is NOT in a position to give consent, and this is the problem right here, if she is that drunk then she is not in a clear or reasonably clear state of mind to make a conscious decision about anything let alone having sex, so if you put yourself in a position like that and you want to cheat, disregard the young lady as just like all the others no that’s where he frigged up, making the assumption that shes gagging for it, if he was looking at this young lady as a human being rather than a piece of meat he more than likely would NOT be in the position he is today, I’m positive, he just wanted to get his leg over and it cost him. Must live with that. I fully aware that some females have stitched up man when it has come to these cases which is TOTALLY WRONG, However, If he showed more respect for women on the whole, ie. his girlfriend, first n foremost, then he wouldn’t be in this situation. The fact that he turned up later doesn’t help his case, Why would he be turning up at his mates room in a hotel ??? Especially since his friend has been there with a girl he picked up that evening Why did he turn up there ??? he must of known what his mate was looking to be doing with this young lady did he not ????
    Finally, he went there his mate’s with this young lady who hes met that night, how did he end up having sex with this lady, bearing in mind at most she was consenting to sex at most with the man she went there with. So how did it come about that he ended up having sex with her ???? Think about it !!!!!! He should NOT be in any football that is your consequence of his actions, He simply should NOT of gone there n if he did he should of been more respectful to his partner and females in general.

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  183. 183
    terry palfrey's avatar
    terry palfrey on January 9, 2015 at 2:34 am

    At last! Another view on this subject. I wrote on another website about what was Evans to do for employment, seeing,as l saw it, an almost hysterical campaign to stop him returning to the only trade he knows. The abuse and downright nasty replies l received for even suggesting he be allowed to return after his sentence was served was shocking. No way was l defending him, l wanted to know what he was supposed to do now? Not one of the replies even mentioned future employment, unless going down to Hell qualifies as a job. Some of the replies on here are similar. The facts from the Court are shocking (that’s the first time l have seen them), but they do not seem to convince a lot of people on here. Their minds are made up and that’s it! I don’t know if his appeal will be successful or not, and if it is l doubt if any of your detractors will acknowledge their mistakes,but there has been cases in the past where ‘guilty’ people have been acquitted, for some too late,having been executed or dying serving their sentence. We need to look at cases like this from both sides,that’s all l am saying.

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  184. 184
    Callum Church's avatar
    Callum Church on January 9, 2015 at 1:54 am

    I do appreciate this article, I really do. It puts the incessant rape culture stigmas into one piece, to use as an example why Mr Evans shouldn’t be allowed to be a role model.

    In response to “why is it for a judge to decide what is an acceptable state for sex” it is because consent under the Sexual Offences Act has to be positive and made without any inhibiting factors e.g. Coercion or serious intoxication. That’s what it is. It is irrelevant for right now what it “should” be. Ched Evans is guilty of Rape under the precedent in R v Bree which is that a person too drunk to be able to give pure, informed, positive consent cannot be reasonably assumed to be consenting to sex, and therefore anyone having sex with that person in that state is raping them by law. Therefore Ched Evans is, for better or worse, a rapist. I’m a law student preparing for an exam in this area amongst others, I know the law in this area better than you do.

    And why can’t he be given a job in football? Because he’s a rapist. He couldn’t get a job as an MP, or a police officer… He couldn’t be employed as a teacher, nor be a football coach… He can’t hold a mascot’s hand… He cannot be put into the public eye, he should not be a role model for young men. They should not be in a place to copy his celebration, for fear that they learn about his past and believe it to be acceptable too.

    Ched Evans is guilty of rape… There is no need to retrial, and the law would have to be redefined if he was found innocent. I’m sorry, I appreciate the effort put into this article, but I feel it takes a short-sighted approach to how the law works

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  185. 185
    Stephen's avatar
    Stephen on January 9, 2015 at 12:39 am

    The case is in review with new evidence being reviewed. You can’t say there’s no new evidence when it has been presented and will be taken into account. Also the Moore’s article was horrific. Car crash grab headlines right on syndrome. Regardless of his guilt or not, under the law of this land he his allowed to resume his career. No its no buts. A certain footballer wiped his arse on 20 pound notes, another set fireworks off in his house, 3 others slept with groupies whilst snorting cocaine, one wearing a skirt ( the footballer not a groupie ) . Where was everyone then signing petitions? All of them carried on playing football. Role models my arse. No one complained about role models in these cases. This is a central argument to this story. Di Canio giving a fascist sign, Leslie Grantham murdering a taxi driver and finally the an field rap. All crimes that deserve nobody working ever again, why the mock outrage now?

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  186. 186
    Anne B's avatar
    Anne B on January 9, 2015 at 12:29 am

    False accusations of rape are actually very minor in numbers due to the ordeal a rape victim goes through (examinations, detailed character assessment etc). It’s also pertinent that the victim in this case did NOT go to the police saying she had been raped. The police made the decision to bring charges on her behalf.

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  187. 187
    Stephen's avatar
    Stephen on January 9, 2015 at 12:08 am

    So very right Sarah. Only the review will decide legally whether the original trial verdict was incorrect or not, I think that should be left up to the powers that be to decide. My issue is that he’s served his time so he should be allowed to continue in his business. That’s the law of the land. What happens next? He doesn’t get a job in football so gets a barman’s job in a nightclub. Next thing you know everyone is in uproar again. We all have to abide by the law of the land, those laws allow Ched Evans to earn a living after his punishment. All of a sudden ( pardon the pun ) every politition and pundit wants to move the goalposts.

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  188. 188
    kbx66's avatar
    kbx66 on January 9, 2015 at 12:06 am

    OK right or wrong he was found guilty, served time for it, right or wrong, what right have we, in our society, to take away his livelihood as well? And not only that, some the people who have contributed to taking his livelihood away have threatened rape!! What sort of world is this we live in?

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  189. 189
    Em's avatar
    Em on January 9, 2015 at 12:04 am

    this smacks of a lot of assumption in itself. And “and also OK to take no cognisance whatsoever of a 19 year old woman’s lifestyle and outlook on casual sex. ” … You’re assuming here that you KNOW of her lifestyle and that she intended to have ‘casual sex’ … Basically making yet more apologies for rapists and more victim-blaming in general!

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  190. 190
    Anne Bevan's avatar
    Anne Bevan on January 8, 2015 at 11:56 pm

    John Ward, your astounding lack of knowledge of the law on rape and consent is embarrassingly apparent.

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  191. 191
    David Sharples's avatar
    David Sharples on January 8, 2015 at 11:46 pm

    I just cannot see how if she had sex with both men only 1 was found guilty of rape. Its either they both raped her or none of them did

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  192. 192
    dottiedoos's avatar
    dottiedoos on January 8, 2015 at 11:40 pm

    Spot on

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    Joey's avatar
    Joey on January 8, 2015 at 11:09 pm

    I feel there is an issue about this being called rape. 2 people being irresponsible, 1 being more irresponsible. Issues over consent for sex. Is that rape? Does it match the horrific mental picture that people see in their mind when they hear the word rape? This case would never have attracted such high levels of outrage if that issue was properly acknowledged I feel.

    With regards to Ched Evans playing football again, which is the main issue now I feel. The sexualisation of young people and youth drinking culture are the two key issues here. Understand what’s driving these. That’s the challenge. If that was my challenge to properly understand I wouldn’t spend my hours persecuting a footballer who people idolise as a footballer and who after the game people don’t look into how he lives his life. My favourite football player when I was younger was Ledley King. No idea about his personal life.

    If I was searching for a driver for rape cases where there are arguments about consent, I would look at reality television shows filling teen television stations like MTV. Shows like Geordie shore or the valleys, shows which glorify drinking horrific amounts of alcohol as a lifestyle which is scored by how often you pull.

    Let’s not scapegoat Ched anymore. I know I’m being hopeful.

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    CONSENSUAL's avatar
    CONSENSUAL on January 8, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    Sophistry.

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    Ed's avatar
    Ed on January 8, 2015 at 10:45 pm

    You have completely misinterpreted the objection. It has nothing to do with her level of intoxication per se.

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    Sky Harris's avatar
    Sky Harris on January 8, 2015 at 10:43 pm

    Very well said…. Possibly the first article I have read that makes any sense. The way they deal with these cases and use evidence needs to be reevaluated. This is sexual discrimination!!!!

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  197. 197
    Kate's avatar
    Kate on January 8, 2015 at 10:43 pm

    Refused permission to appeal by the Court of Appeal on two separate occasions. Arm chair lawyers proclaiming this man is innocent when they know nothing about the criminal justice system in this country. I just wish people would just attempt to produce reasoned arguments to support their opinions, but that is too much to ask.

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  198. 198
    Mark Finlay's avatar
    Mark Finlay on January 8, 2015 at 10:43 pm

    I suggest EJ reads as I have the details in full including extracts of the court case and you find it Very Surprising!! How the lad was found guilty is beyond me as well as extremely worrying!! There was once a saying that a Policemans Word was Law which i do believe was changed due to the amount of porkies being told! The Rape Charge was brought by the police the young lady in question never claimed she was raped!!

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    Mark Finlay's avatar
    Mark Finlay on January 8, 2015 at 10:40 pm

    Sorry Mr Ward aimed at the wrong person there!!

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    Mark Finlay's avatar
    Mark Finlay on January 8, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    I suggest Mr John Ward reads as I have the details in full including extracts of the court case and you find it Very Surprising!! How the lad was found guilty is beyond me as well as extremely worrying!! There was once a saying that a Policemans Word was Law which i do believe was changed due to the amount of porkies being told! The Rape Charge was brought by the police the young lady in question never claimed she was raped!!

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  201. 201
    Tammy leclerc's avatar
    Tammy leclerc on January 8, 2015 at 10:32 pm

    I think that despite the above arguments put forward, the fact is that “Joe blogs”on the street convicted and served time for any crime would be hard pressed to be seen as employable in any job on his release. Therefore why should any person be given special treatment because their chosen profession has put them in the spotlight. I suspect most convicted criminals ( both those rightly and wrongly convicted) would relish the opportunity on release to put it all behind them and pick up where they left off in society but we live in the real world and the majority of them will be lucky to gain any form of gainful employment again, so my point is why should this man be treated any differently?

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  202. 202
    Steve's avatar
    Steve on January 8, 2015 at 10:32 pm

    Even the complainant has no memory of whether she consented, so how are the jury so sure that she didn’t. Just because she has no recollection of events, doesn’t mean she wasn’t conscious and making choices. We have all been told the following day of things we did while drunk the night before that we can’t remember. The most unsafe conviction I’ve seen in a long, long time.

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  203. 203
    Unknown's avatar
    Sad Times | Mushy Cloud on January 8, 2015 at 10:31 pm

    […] didn’t want to get into the details of the case in this post, but this article here will offer some insights that will help you see what I mean about the doubts of the […]

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    Karen's avatar
    Karen on January 8, 2015 at 10:24 pm

    Unbelievable!!! So any drunk girl or female under the influence of drugs has given permission to be gang raped???? Well I think females should be very scared of a man with morals such as yours, you obviously think you know better than the legal system. You are ignorant, very wrong and someone who is bang out of order to make such a claim.

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    Sarah's avatar
    Sarah on January 8, 2015 at 10:21 pm

    I tell you what, there are two things that really annoy me…1)men that rape women and 2) women that cry rape if false. If Ched is innocent and proven by appeal ,then I hope that the press publish this in the same why as they have his so called guilt. I also hope that the girl who has made the accusations is then as publically crucified as Ched has been. If however he is still found guilty then let him never get a job in the public eye again.

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  206. 206
    Paul browne's avatar
    Paul browne on January 8, 2015 at 10:17 pm

    What utter nonsense you talk. What about the Birmingham 6, The Guildford 4 and so on. ALL convicted by a corrupt justice system. Just because you are convicted does NOT mean you are guilty.

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    tara's avatar
    tara on January 8, 2015 at 10:16 pm

    Im sorry but a 19 yr old girl going to a hotel room to to men who ever they r she should have know that they wernt going there to play cards and coje and weed as the rape drug behave wot plannet was this girl on sorry but i see her as someone trying to get her 5 min fame i was attacted in a nite club toilet in a club so i know wot rape is like but sorry i have no sympathy for this woman i so hope his conviction gets over turned cause to tell the truth i see so many thinfs wrong with this

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  208. 208
    DJA's avatar
    DJA on January 8, 2015 at 10:13 pm

    Do you not realise that every weekend all across the country men and women have sex and wake up with no memory of the incident? Should all those men be convicted of rape? What about the women?

    Saying that she was so drunk that she can’t remember consenting is a poor excuse. I think that if she was truly at the point where she had no say in what happened to her body then she would have been stumbling into the hotel. I also doubt the experience will scar her for life (except maybe the aftermath, which she brought on herself); she doesn’t remember what happened the night before as happens to hundreds of men and women every week, except most of them don’t ruin the guy’s life.

    Evans did something stupid, but I don’t believe there was any malicious intent or that there would have been much damage done, besides the woman regretting HER mistake. It’s what she did that has ruined both of their lives.

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    davespenguinarmy's avatar
    davespenguinarmy on January 8, 2015 at 10:01 pm

    That’s not a crime.

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    davespenguinarmy's avatar
    davespenguinarmy on January 8, 2015 at 9:58 pm

    Aren’t you the same type of people who use ‘unsafe convictions’ as reason for not bringing back capital punishment? What if he was telling the truth. If the jury is right 100% of the time lets start hanging people.

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    Terry B's avatar
    Terry B on January 8, 2015 at 9:49 pm

    http://chedevans.com/key-and-undisputed-facts

    Clears up a few of the things you’ve mentioned like why he left by the fire escape and also the case against Evans was not whether she agreed to have sex with him it was whether she was too drunk to give consent.

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    Ad's avatar
    Ad on January 8, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    Convictions are overturned every day in the UK, sometimes years or decades after the sentencing. Celebrities should be treated the same as the general public. They are human after all and should receive the same punishments (which most consider to be just). If he is innocent, then this girl will have wrecked his life. People are looking down at him and he can no longer resume his life as normal after already spending quite a few years in prison. If he is innocent, then this really does deserve to go to trial again. If he is guilty, then the outcome of the trial shouldn’t change if the UK justice system is a flawless as you believe it to be. Neither Ched nor the girl will be able to move on with their lives, I believe.

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  213. 213
    Terry B's avatar
    Terry B on January 8, 2015 at 9:33 pm

    I read that when Evans came in to the hotel room one of them asked her if Evans could join in and she said yes.

    Both Evans and McDonald said this to the police.

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  214. 214
    robert ross's avatar
    robert ross on January 8, 2015 at 9:21 pm

    Thank you. Thank God someone understands this case.

    Now tell me – who IS the aptly named Jean Hatchett?

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  215. 215
    Alan's avatar
    Alan on January 8, 2015 at 9:09 pm

    ok, if the guy was found guilty by a jury of his peers and sentenced to 5 years of which he has served half his sentence, i’m sure that the powers that be see it fit to release him from prison, i don’t think he could have any input into his release, so if he has done his allocated time why should he not be able to continue his trade, if he was a bricklayer or lorry driver would he be allowed to go back to his job. let he who is without sin cast the first stone

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  216. 216
    Paolo's avatar
    Paolo on January 8, 2015 at 9:02 pm

    Derek Bentley was also found guilty (of murdering a police officer) and subsequently hanged. Christopher Craig killed the PC. It took 45 years before Derek Bentley’s conviction was eventually quashed. Or, in your words, the conviction stood ‘without a shadow of a doubt’ for 45 years before the failings in the case were acknowledged. Derek’s sister, Iris died fighting to clear his name.

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  217. 217
    Alison's avatar
    Alison on January 8, 2015 at 8:56 pm

    I think what john was saying is that why is it, if a young woman decides to get so drunk she does not have full control of her faculties is that the fault of men…. As women we make choices everyday for ourselves and I would never go back to a hotel with a man I just met on the street…. I would NEVER place myself in that situation….. I am not saying’she deserved or asked for what happened only that it was her choice to go to that hotel drunk or not……the only people who really know what occurred are the 3 people in that room tant night, I do empathise with the ‘victim’ however I also don’t think we should be judge and jury over something we are told by the ‘truthful’ media…. They are biased and after the scoop that will get people to buy their news!

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    jedjones1's avatar
    jedjones1 on January 8, 2015 at 8:54 pm

    She did wake up in the same bed, on her own.

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    Jimmy Jambone's avatar
    curiousandinspired on January 8, 2015 at 8:48 pm

    The UK is a very scary place. If you are on the wrong side of the Socialist dogma, you’d better watch out. It’s open fascism. Go Galt and get out.

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    Victor's avatar
    Victor on January 8, 2015 at 8:43 pm

    EJ – what do you mean you believe her? She didn’t claim she was raped.

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    Mark Andrews's avatar
    Mark Andrews on January 8, 2015 at 8:36 pm

    What intrigues me is that Ched Evans and Clayton McDonald convicted themselves. Apparently there was no evidence that sexual intercourse took place, the girl can’t remember but Evans and McDonald admitted it.
    If they had drunk a bit more and ‘could not remember’ we would have had three people who had sex but couldn’t remember and no evidence!
    There are a lot of grey areas in this, nobody knows for sure what really happened apart from the three involved, one of which cannot remember!

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  222. 222
    Phil Taylor (@20SecToComply)'s avatar
    Phil Taylor (@20SecToComply) on January 8, 2015 at 8:34 pm

    …And it was also them that let him out early!

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    EJ's avatar
    EJ on January 8, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    You are obviously taking the absolute piss John. You can’t seriously stand by that statement??!

    If a vulnerable old man were to be drinking in the bar on the same night would he also be fair game to rape?

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  224. 224
    EJ's avatar
    EJ on January 8, 2015 at 8:30 pm

    What has made you come to the conclusion that he is innocent? I’m genuinely interested.

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  225. 225
    Blair Nicol's avatar
    Blair Nicol on January 8, 2015 at 8:28 pm

    “Ched was found guilty- the trial is over- are you trying to justify his actions or debate the jury’s decision? The issue is not whether or not he did it, the criminal justice system has found that he did.”

    And the criminal justice system has never got it wrong..

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  226. 226
    Jarv's avatar
    Jarv on January 8, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    He says its consensual, she says she can’t remember and must have been spiked. Since proven wrong, although she had taken cocaine and weed, proven which she denies – so either she’s lying or someone spiked her drink with them both hrrrrm.
    Either way it’s far from clear cut and she alone was responsible for her own alcohol consumption and her own actions afterwards, which led her to that hotel. She wasn’t dragged kicking and screaming and was actually walking through the reception in high heels 20 minutes before she was apparently incaperble of making the decision to sleep with a second footballer – again hrrrm.

    If I drank too much beer in town and on the way home decide to start smashing windows, I can’t wake up in the police cell and claim I don’t remember it therefore I’m not responsible for my actions.
    So why can she?

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  227. 227
    ailybee's avatar
    ailybee on January 8, 2015 at 8:17 pm

    Only if he takes advantage of her lack of control due to alcohol

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  228. 228
    john's avatar
    john on January 8, 2015 at 8:15 pm

    Have you had sex with a bf and can’t remember Becuase you was drunk? Of coarse you have! Is your bf a rapist? Nope
    A women goes to a hotel room for one thing sex. Just Becuase he’s a man if it was the other way around would all this be out in the media no?

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  229. 229
    Cobby's avatar
    Cobby on January 8, 2015 at 8:09 pm

    errrr she, by her own admission, has no idea what happened? So how she is so emotionally scared from being raped, unable to return to normal life, is beyond me….? If she can’t remember what happened how can she be scarred from being raped….? It doesn’t make sense you fool…

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  230. 230
    Andrea Hunt's avatar
    Andrea Hunt on January 8, 2015 at 8:08 pm

    You only have to watch the programme on Christopher Jeffries to see how wrong the media and police get things . I believe mr Evans to be an innocent man and feel so much sympathy for him . He can’t even move forward with his life until his name has been cleared I sincerely hope he gets that chance and once cleared I hope all these football clubs that have been blackmailed by their sponsors apologise to him

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  231. 231
    tosh's avatar
    tosh on January 8, 2015 at 8:00 pm

    Best comment of the day.

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  232. 232
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:59 pm

    ‘The crass incompetence of not realising Evans can’t coach because he is on the sex offenders register is astounding.’ This is what I said. Are you by any chance insane?

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  233. 233
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:57 pm

    ‘Women who drink alcohol are clearly vulnerable’. And that’s the bloke’s fault, is it?

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  234. 234
    EJ's avatar
    EJ on January 8, 2015 at 7:54 pm

    As you are on this case.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:53 pm

    Yes indeed.

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  236. 236
    Josie Nash's avatar
    Josie Nash on January 8, 2015 at 7:52 pm

    Same old same old! I thought we had moved on from all this utter rubbish. Why are we discussing what she drank
    its irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Women who drink alcohol are clearly vulnerable and being so young even more so. Each and everyone of you who would lay blame at the victims door. If it were your Daughter
    Mother or Sister would you think so? I Think not. Also turn it around the other way suppose a young
    19 year old male had a few too many and had been raped by two older males? Yes its an awful
    thoght isnt it! Anyone young and vulnerable who drinks a few too many does not deserve to be
    used for sexual gratification by anyone. This mindset of they deserve it because they drank too much alcohol
    is ignorant and shameful.

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  237. 237
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    ‘so victims of assault whilst intoxicated should take a certain level of responsibility for what happened to them?’ Correct: sorry if you can’t handle that.

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  238. 238
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:48 pm

    If only you’d discerned the irony in what I wrote

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  239. 239
    Sarah's avatar
    Sarah on January 8, 2015 at 7:46 pm

    The judge clearly set out in this case to make an example of Evans. As a law graduate myself and having sat and witnessed a number of rape trials, after having spoken to the judges presiding, their opinion has always been that unquestionable evidence (normally in the form of DNA) must almost always be present in order to ensure a conviction. ‘Beyond all doubt’ and all that.
    It is the jury who ultimately decides, though how they managed to ensure this was done fairly in this case is something that will remain unknown.
    If the ‘victim’ in question claims only to have a hazy memory of awaking naked in the bed, NOT specifically recalling the rape having taken place then there should be no case to answer to.
    Regardless, Ched Evans has served his time and if we are to have faith in the British justice system and its ability to rehabilite, then we must allow him to continue to play football at the level he is capable of.

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  240. 240
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:44 pm

    The spiked drink reference has been used by the anti-Evans mob to vilify him. The logic in your argument escapes me.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    Obviously this pleases you Mark, so I am very happy for you.

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    Terry B's avatar
    Terry B on January 8, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    This is the problem as I see it. She met up with McDonald, hailed the taxi and went back to the hotel. The jury decided this constituted consent.

    Evans was convicted because she was “too drunk” to give consent.

    This doesn’t add up. She was okay to consent with McDonald but not with Evans?

    But they couldn’t convicted McDonald as there’s CCTV and witness evidence showing she went with McDonald willingly. Check the CCTV from the hotel, she doesn’t look in such a state.

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  243. 243
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:38 pm

    No, she ALLEGES they’d left.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:37 pm

    Can you give m the source of this shit? Cannabis doesn’t dissolve in alcohol, and coke’s acrid taste would be instantly noteworthy.

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  245. 245
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    Well Baz, why not go the whole hig and brand me a bestial paedophile? Clearly you’re well boned up on my history…

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    Mark's avatar
    Mark on January 8, 2015 at 7:34 pm

    Are you suggesting that rapists should be punished by rape?

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    Paul's avatar
    Paul on January 8, 2015 at 7:34 pm

    Possibly the most hypocritical, asinine, worthless piece of journalism I have ever had the mis fortune to read, there is five minutes of my life I will never get back. The arrogance and pontification of this so called journalist hides the lack of substance in his/ her argument. Criticising journalists for using the term “convicted” as a weak argument when in actual fact the vermin Evans was convicted by twelve people who heard the facts. The crass incompetence of not realising Evans can’t coach because he is on the sex offenders register is astounding.

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  248. 248
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:33 pm

    Are you blind?

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  249. 249
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:33 pm

    Linda, he has repeatedly said he deplores the online bullying aimed at the girl.

    https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2015/01/08/ched-evans-episode-2-as-the-braying-mob-shows-its-true-colours-people-must-judge-for-themselves-the-psychographic-type-behind-the-vilification-of-evans/

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  250. 250
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:32 pm

    He got 2 years off thus far because the cps has doubts about the conviction.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    Give me the forensic evidence please proving their sobriety.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:29 pm

    What did she do then….tell the police by ESP?

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:28 pm

    Another knuckle-dragging semi-literate comment for the prosecution….

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:27 pm

    ‘Women have the right to say NO at any point.’ That is something I believe too. When I was young, we used to call them prick-teasers. I also believe they were exactly that.
    Women know they have ultimate power.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:25 pm

    What I really believe, Leanne, is that you were probably inattentive in English grammar classes at school.

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    Mark's avatar
    Mark on January 8, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    I actually believe she was more sinister than that. I don’t think believe she didn’t know where she was, and I don’t believe she doesn’t remember it. I do believe she saw £££ and lied.

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  257. 257
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    If you see valuable integrity in the British justice system, then you must have second sight. Or double standards. Or both.

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    Mark's avatar
    Mark on January 8, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    Tell that to Gerry Conlon

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    Ah yes, another reasoned conclusion from the Sturmette Abteilungen.

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    EJ's avatar
    EJ on January 8, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    Have you not read it JW?

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  261. 261
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    Lana, I have no respect for people who assume, insult, swear and ignore facts. This should give you a rough guide to what sort of person I am. How about trying again with “How could you even thing such a thing?” It sounds very much up your boulevard.

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  262. 262
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    Lana, I have no respect for people who assume, insult, swear and ignore facts. This should give you a rough guide to what sort of person I am. How about trying again with “How could you even thing such a thing?” It sounds very much up your boulevard.

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  263. 263
    Sarah's avatar
    Sarah on January 8, 2015 at 7:18 pm

    Am I missing something but to be raped it has to be non consensual sex? And yet the girl in question was that drunk that she can’t remember in the morning whether she consented or not! She was of legal age so can’t be called rape in that sense. Where is the case here? I suspect it was more a case of her being very embarrassed and wanting to save face. I speak from the experience of having been sexually assaulted and also had drunken encounters, before anyone questions my experience of these matters.

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  264. 264
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:17 pm

    I say Natalie, I’m overwhelmed by the exuberantly clinical nature of your analysis. 11/10 my dear.

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  265. 265
    northernboy (@sibear71)'s avatar
    northernboy (@sibear71) on January 8, 2015 at 7:17 pm

    He’s been instructed not to say anything by his legal team so by saying nothing you think he’s arrogant and smug.I very much doubt it.

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  266. 266
    Sharon's avatar
    Sharon on January 8, 2015 at 7:16 pm

    I fail to understand how 1 man was guilty and another not. It seems to me the guilty man earned more money hence the alleged victim could earn more money
    And what about double standards here how can this man have his career taken away from him yet another man in the same sport serve time in prison for causing the death of 2 young children whilst under the influence of alcohol yet return not only to the sport but also be given captaincy of the team
    Now there’s a role model I wouldn’t want

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  267. 267
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:16 pm

    I don’t agree with all of this Lorraine, but I do loudly applaud the dignity and sense with which it was submitted. Thank you very much for adding value to the comment thread so brilliantly.

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  268. 268
    EJ's avatar
    EJ on January 8, 2015 at 7:14 pm

    I was just trying to put forward a reasonable and genuine opinion on the case to hopefully educate you on the viewpoint your ‘baying mob’ have in the hope you might grow some empathy and understanding.

    Bit if you want a bit of tit for tat-

    ‘Surprise, surprise – young girl wakes up later naked in bed in same room as aforementioned blokes. Why is she surprised that she’s had sex with them?’

    How very close minded of you.

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  269. 269
    Baz's avatar
    Baz on January 8, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    Original poster is a rapist supporter.

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    Steven's avatar
    Steven on January 8, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    Exactly

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    No you wouldn’t Dave – no you wouldn’t.

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  272. 272
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:07 pm

    ‘The issue is not whether or not he did it, the criminal justice system has found that he did’. You are confusing fact with verdict.

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  273. 273
    Steven's avatar
    Steven on January 8, 2015 at 7:06 pm

    Corroborated? Ched Evans so called mate dropped him in the shit

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  274. 274
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:06 pm

    Tell it to the IRA, and the 37 separate trials in which their adherents were stitched up. Try telling it to the 46 1944 bomb-plotters strung up by piano wire. Etc etc etc

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  275. 275
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:04 pm

    This was not the imputation of Moore’s article, but thank you anyway for your deranged deconstruction of my derangement. I consider myself suitably vindicated.

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  276. 276
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    ‘Why do self important pricks feel the need to waffle on matters they have no knowledge of?’ Dunno really , Ken. Why do people like you always resort to insults when cornered?

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  277. 277
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 7:01 pm

    Wins Slog 2015 Award for multiply mispelt 9-letter word, and 0% evidence

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  278. 278
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 6:59 pm

    ‘ I don’t believe all footballers are rapists’. Goodness me, how incredibly open-minded of you….

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  279. 279
    hyums's avatar
    hyums on January 8, 2015 at 6:59 pm

    Thank god there is someone with some sense here.

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    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 8, 2015 at 6:58 pm

    Well then, do enlighten us…

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    kakaldinho's avatar
    kakaldinho on January 8, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    Loooooooool. Isn’t everyone here in a position to judge a case that only the subjects know.

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  282. 282
    Wills's avatar
    Wills on January 8, 2015 at 6:31 pm

    Lots of misrepresenting of the actual facts in this ‘article’. In fact some of is just made-up completely. What’s just as bad are the idiots commenting who are also clearly speculating. It seems too many are happy to read this rubbish than the actual report itself. No, not the conveniently edited version on matey’s nasty little website. The actual report.

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  283. 283
    Daniel's avatar
    Daniel on January 8, 2015 at 6:23 pm

    Are you serious?

    ‘It would have been consensual if she said the word yes’. In that one sentence you displayed complete ignorance about the case. The question was never about whether she said yes, it was about whether she was sober enough for the word yes to be considered consent.

    Secondly, the jury of 12 make a decision that is partly driven by the way the case is interpreted by the judge. If the judge tells them that she was in no state to say yes then that is no longer a decision for them to make.

    I will be very surprised if this conviction isn’t overturned.

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  284. 284
    EJ's avatar
    EJ on January 8, 2015 at 6:23 pm

    Imagine your daughter waking up in a pile of her own vomit and urine without her personal belongings and no clue of what happened to her.

    Then maybe imagine her being used as a blow up doll whilst others laugh and try to film it.

    But she was drunk so that’s totally acceptable, right? So if you’re drunk it’s ok for someone to knock you out? Or steal your car? It’s a crime just the same, one that so much worse than belongings, it’s physical and mental and the torture this poor woman feels will continue for the rest of her life. She’s had to move five times due to threats, her mum died after she had to go into hiding and she has left her poor dad without anyone. I wonder how their Christmas was?

    She went to the police station not implicating these two idiots, they were identified from CCTV footage.

    There are probably a few reasons CE was convicted – he lied to get into the room, she didn’t have a say in whether he was there or not, he turned his taxi round when his mate text that he’d ‘got a bird’, he left via the fire escape.

    What makes what the convicted rapist Ched Evans says more believable to you than the victim of rape?

    I believe her and it is more than possible a date rape drug was used that couldn’t be detected. I know this because it also happened to a friend of mine – with a footballer! The whole industry needs a re-vamp. I don’t believe all footballers are rapists but there are certainly questionable morals that are promoted within these tribes of young men with money. How anyone can say it is ok for him to go back to a life of privelege after destroying someone else’s is just heartbreaking.

    I’m not a feminazi but I do believe men and women need to work together to get rid of this toxic culture that has come about from the objectification of women.

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  285. 285
    andrewgallowayrolls's avatar
    andrewgallowayrolls on January 8, 2015 at 6:22 pm

    Ask Bill Maloney if ‘Kitty’ Cliff frequented Elm House !!
    Bill was a child victim at said establishment, and I tend to take his word over your assumption, John.

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  286. 286
    Caitlin Quinn's avatar
    Caitlin Quinn on January 8, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    Couldn’t have said it better myself. So many holes in this story. Such a shame for a guy who’s hit unlucky & the pressure from the idiotic public & press is ridiculous. Inc. Charlie Webber who should read the facts before she ruins someone’s life. A rapist should be heavily convicted. On the basis of factual, hard evidence!

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  287. 287
    Captain Sensible's avatar
    Captain Sensible on January 8, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    When I heard of this case I thought, he we go again another footballer caught doing something he shouldn’t have.

    However, having looked at the detailed evidence provided by the ChedEvans website it seems very clear that the girl in question was certainly not drunk so if she wasn’t drunk could she have been lying?

    Check this out if you don’t believe me :- http://chedevans.com/judge-for-yourself

    This girl was so passed herself she was able to leave the hotel to retrieve a pizza and return with it!!!

    I do believe in this case she was indeed lying and that the judge should be sacked and never allowed to judge another case as it looks like he has destroyed a young man’s career and life with an absurd judgement without any evidence to back it up.

    And before anybody accuses me of siding with Ched Evans, I had a niece who was raped and understand what a cruel, hateful this is.

    But this conviction simply doesn’t stack up for me.

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  288. 288
    toni birch's avatar
    toni birch on January 8, 2015 at 6:16 pm

    http://chedevans.com/judge-for-yourself take a look at this is she was ‘too drunk’ hardly any females could walk in those shoes drunk or having her drink being spiked!

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    julie curtis's avatar
    julie curtis on January 8, 2015 at 6:14 pm

    Misognist. Misguided and ignorant.

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    Kevin Campbell's avatar
    Kevin Campbell on January 8, 2015 at 6:12 pm

    What if this guy is innocent and has been wrongly accused of this?
    He has served time for a crime he didn’t commit. He has protested his innocence since day one. And to cop it all having served time for a crime he didn’t commit he is now being denied the opportunity to get his life back to any sort of normality. How many people have been wrongly commited of crimes in the past?
    I am not defending him merely pointing out after reading the above article that if it is the case he has been wrongly accused, how many of you wiuld stand and apologise to someone who has in effect ruined your career and life. I’m sure I bloody wouldn’t.

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  291. 291
    lindsay's avatar
    lindsay on January 8, 2015 at 6:09 pm

    so did she get shagged by both men….if so why did Evans get charged and the other man went free……..

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  292. 292
    toni birch's avatar
    toni birch on January 8, 2015 at 6:02 pm

    since when is sexism a fair trial? by the sounds of things they believe an ignorant tramp who’s not only accused two footballers of rape but also more it seems and the fact only one has been found ‘guilty’ is some what evidence of a lying,scrounging mutt.
    Her story just doesn’t add up at all and how the jury and the judge believed her is beyond me but i suggest its because she’s a female. Being a female myself i believe strongly he didn’t rape her,she decided to be a slut whilst drunk and couldn’t come to terms with herself not remember half of the matter that she slept with 2 footballers because its a story every girl would love to tell so she’s made up her own little story going beyond anything any girl would wish for because she saw money signs right away. Also her sorry arse bragging about the shit the moneys bought her is just another sign of disgustingness,which the judge and police have addressed themselves after snap shots of her Facebook statues where sent in to police. What does that tell you? thats just half of the female population and their sick twisted minds! females are obsessed with money and possession of designer tat and lavish life styles that they’ll go to any extreme to get it! and thats all that this case is. it wasn’t a fair testament in Cheds end! no doubt the ’12 men and women’ was made up of more women than men and the men where manipulated by the womens mind and mouth that he was guilty nothings a fair trial where women are involved TRUST ME when i say that when its coming from a women well teenager because women think their always right when 75% of the time they’re so wrong.

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  293. 293
    Ken's avatar
    Ken on January 8, 2015 at 5:38 pm

    The fact you think she woke up in the same bed as the 2 of them shows how ignorant of the case you are.

    Why do self important pricks feel the need to waffle on matters they have no knowledge of? Same reason any of them have a blog in the first place pressumably.

    Try reading this, https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

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  294. 294
    londrinense1's avatar
    londrinense1 on January 8, 2015 at 5:28 pm

    She never said that Evans and McDonald spiked her drinks. In her words, she felt her drink had been spiked before she got even to the kebab shop, before she’d even met McDonald. This vitiates some of your vitriolic arguments, and I’ll put the rest down to an irrational mind.

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  295. 295
    james hayes's avatar
    james hayes on January 8, 2015 at 5:23 pm

    All major societies fail once they become feminized….. Egypt Rome, Greece, and soon us….. We live in a society where by we pay wemen to leave their man and then give them a free house.

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  296. 296
    Osian Grifford's avatar
    Osian Grifford on January 8, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    “She got drunk, had casual sex and felt bad about it so reported it as rape. If this situation (fake assertion of facts, fake assertion of emotions at the time, disgust for country with rules that protect women from sexual predatory behaviour, blah blah blah)”
    Tom, try appreciating what it takes for a girl to decide that she is going to report a rape. Women are undeniably looked down upon for consensual sex with a stranger in a way that men aren’t. So even if the police believe you, they and others will still judge you for having gone to a hotel with a man. If you then have to confront having been raped, the last thing women want to do is talk in detail about it with a room full of strangers. She would have guesses beforehand what allegations would be put to her, because it’s a scary situation and women have to decide if they can cope with it. The reason it’s good to notify the police is because you might find out that these men have been doing the same to other women. I don’t think this has been brought up in this case but it’s important stuff to consider when making derogotary comments about a woman who put herself through this media ordeal for the purpose of some kind of justice.

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  297. 297
    Jokarola's avatar
    Jokarola on January 8, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    WHy say alleged victim. This went to trial so there’s no alleged about it!! Everyone is saying that the other guy was found not guilty but Ched is guilty and how can this happen? Simple she went to the hotel room with one man and ended up with 2 & was too drunk to say yes or no!! I’m sure he didn’t think he was raping her but in the eyes of the law he did!!

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  298. 298
    Elly x's avatar
    Elly x on January 8, 2015 at 5:10 pm

    Ched was found guilty- the trial is over- are you trying to justify his actions or debate the jury’s decision? The issue is not whether or not he did it, the criminal justice system has found that he did. That means that the evidence was presented to a jury of independent people and they found, that without a shadow of a doubt, he is a rapist. There has been no new evidence to suggest there is a need for a retrial.

    The question you should ask instead is what does society expect from convicted rapists (and other criminals) do with themselves, following release. When is it acceptable for them to move on with their lives, can they move on, and if so, how do we prove that they have been rehabilitated? Also, what type of convictions are acceptable for people in the public limelight? Should we have different expectations for public figures due to the access they have to all people (including vulnerable people)?

    Instead of asking any meaningful questions, you take quite a pitiful stab at Suzanne Moore and her life choices. This isn’t going to help your argument that feminism and mainstream media is on a witchhunt, instead the article comes off whiny and confused.

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  299. 299
    dave's avatar
    dave on January 8, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    I wouldn’t mind this article so much, except for the fact that it does exactly what it claims to be against – it takes minimal facts, adds biased opinions, and denounces all other view points.
    If that is wrong for the media to do, then it is wrong for you. As said, only 3 people know what happened (plus the two allegedly trying to film it), but given that the judge and jury saw fit to throw in a guilty verdict, then until the appeal that is the way it stands.

    In the meantime the girl in question has had to move to avoid threats and harrasment, and Ched is also being persecuted. But in his case it has nothing to do with the verdict – it’s to do with the fact that he has shown no remorse and feels that there was nothing wrong with what he did.
    That is unacceptable in civilised society. While I can admit that anyone can make an error of judgement, and anyone can use alcohol as an excuse, but anyone can also tell right from wrong – even if it is after the fact…

    So what are You up in arms about?
    Persecution of an innocent man? He was found guilty.
    That a (“not naive”? Really) girl has got away with accusing an innocent man of rape?
    Or that the justice system in this country is a joke?

    Pick a topic, and run with that. Back it up with facts rather than opinions and suppositions, and I will have a lot more respect for your (‘slightly’ biased) articles.

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  300. 300
    Alys's avatar
    Alys on January 8, 2015 at 5:02 pm

    Ched Evans has been convicted of rape. Regardless of whether that is correct or not, the press is entitled to call him a convicted rapist in any piece they write unless that conviction is overturned. In reflection to this, journalists can assume he is guilty as he was found guilty by a jury of his peers. That is how the legal system works in this country.

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  301. 301
    fentan's avatar
    fentan on January 8, 2015 at 5:01 pm

    I have known ched all his life and have 4 daughters all i would trust in his care.

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  302. 302
    the ghost's avatar
    the ghost on January 8, 2015 at 4:53 pm

    I know it pretty well & i also know the culture of footballers that like DJ’s of the passed pick up woman & take them back to the hotel rooms & even prostitution & how many have lose perspective of what they are actually doing,if nothing else i hope this case brings this sordid perverted systematic of taking for granted there egotistical needs above the reality of the truth of their actions stops it stone dead,i know for a fact that clubs have taken steps try & stop this on there time,now why would they do that if it A) was a one off B) Clubs are fearful of the repercussions from such actions & rightly so,football is trying to quietly but a stop to this mentality,drink/drive,speeding many contracts now have disclaimers in & are sack able offences
    Once the case is finished i will add on sentence to this post!

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  303. 303
    Ben Williams's avatar
    Ben Williams on January 8, 2015 at 4:52 pm

    12 people can’t be wrong
    —–
    This wins stupid comment 2015……..

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  304. 304
    Janet Cooney's avatar
    Janet Cooney on January 8, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    If he had been any thing than a football no would have battered a eye lid he’s done his time they should leave him alone know

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  305. 305
    Z Aston Meddows-Taylor's avatar
    Z Aston Meddows-Taylor on January 8, 2015 at 4:41 pm

    you mean he hasn’t come out and apologised unreservedly and decided to take his holy vows and live life as a buddist monk… for SHAME Ched for SHAME.

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  306. 306
    chaz's avatar
    chaz on January 8, 2015 at 4:35 pm

    Hit the nail on the head with this

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  307. 307
    Lorraine Butler's avatar
    Lorraine Butler on January 8, 2015 at 4:34 pm

    I will try and be as reasoned and as unemotive here as it is possible to be given the sensitivity of the subject matter. First off I believe that the rape of anyone, female or male is a sickening crime. I also believe to falsely accuse someone of doing so is equally abhorrent. Both acts can destroy a victim.

    In the case of Ched Evans I do not know the facts – in reality only those in the room at the time truly do. We only know, whether your opinion feels that was rightly or wrongly that Ched was found guilty by a jury.

    I am aware that Ched Evans legal team are well progressed in their appeal against the original conviction. This might go some way to explaining an aapparent lack of remorse at this point in time.

    So for me it is one of timing. Maybe a return to football is best made after you have cleared your name.

    If indeed it was a stupid act carried out after one or more of the parties was impaired but no criminal act took part, then all have learned a valuable lesson.

    If however Mr Evans fails to convince the appeal judges of his innocence, he will have to accept a degree of responsibility. From this he can demonstrate his remorse and move forward. Timing obviously being the key.

    Maybe a note to himself being that only if a person has directly expressed consent and more importantly is capable of expressing that consent unimpaired then and only then it is wise to continue .

    But as things stand just now he has neither cleared his name or shown any remorse. One or the other has to come before you can stand any chance of moving forward

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  308. 308
    ben's avatar
    ben on January 8, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    Its very simple … its never about facts in court its about if the jury likes you and who lies better! fact!

    The jury are normal day to day people, they know how much footballers earn and as soon as they here an arrogant footballer say “im a celebrity footballer, I can get any girl I want” like he did in his statement, that makes them hate you! Is he guilty? I wouldnt say so!

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  309. 309
    Natalie's avatar
    Natalie on January 8, 2015 at 4:31 pm

    you are an ass hole.

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  310. 310
    C.J.Hewins's avatar
    C.J.Hewins on January 8, 2015 at 4:09 pm

    At 17 I committed robbery and was sentenced to 7 years, through appeal I was reduced to 5 years of which I served 2.5 and was released on parole. Because of that mistake, under the rehabilitation of offenders act (as it was back in 2000), because I had been given a custodial sentence that was longer than 4 years, my conviction would never be spent. Now it was bad enough at that time to try and get a job, but to be told that by law I had to declare my un-spent conviction on every job application, insurance quote requests…etc that was heart breaking. The law since has been changed and thankfully I am no longer required to declare said conviction. My point is it doesn’t matter what you have been convicted for, you are labelled a criminal, you are swept under the carpet so to speak and forgotten about. Society has not really changed that much over the past 14 years since my release from prison, but I was lucky enough to have family and friends around me to support me and tell me that everything would work out. in the case of Ched Evans, yes I do agree that he should be allowed to play football, yes I do agree that, like so many others out there, he does deserve a second chance, no I don’t agree with the petitions that are constantly being submitted by the general public just because he might have raped somebody (lets face it, in agreement with the blog, it was never proven). The people and the justice system will never change until how we view the human race on a whole…

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  311. 311
    andrew's avatar
    andrew on January 8, 2015 at 4:07 pm

    everyone is going on about evans and that he shoulnt play but it must be ok for lee hughes to kill a person in car accident?? he got 6 years done his time and was aloud to play for oldham!!! hardly no one was going on like they are now for evans. its not right of what he’s done but he’s done his time let the man get in with his life…

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  312. 312
    A6er's avatar
    A6er on January 8, 2015 at 4:03 pm

    Reblogged this on Britain Isn't Eating.

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  313. 313
    Lana McCurchin's avatar
    Lana McCurchin on January 8, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    This is a load of bull****.
    This man has been convicted in a court of law for rape and has only served half of his sentence.
    The fact that you cast the majority of the blame on the woman and the fact it’s a footballer truly shows what a pathetic human being you are.
    You sympathise with the man who has raped a woman, what kind of person are you?

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  314. 314
    John's avatar
    John on January 8, 2015 at 3:58 pm

    The girl has has to change her name and move house multiple times as a result of this incident and you want people to leave him alone?

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  315. 315
    James Edwards's avatar
    James Edwards on January 8, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    This is one of the most dangerous articles I have read in a while displayed by the disgraceful comments of the victim blamers. It is not for us to question a Judge and his Jury have been party to more information than you ever have. It is for us to have faith in the Justice system and to not excuse Ched Evans deplorable actions.

    It is not the girls fault for having a few too many drinks, it is Ched Evans fault for raping her

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  316. 316
    narisha's avatar
    narisha on January 8, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    What a load of shit. You are one of the biggest twats in history

    LikeLike

  317. 317
    DB9's avatar
    DB9 on January 8, 2015 at 3:36 pm

    I doubt many rape victims would agree with that relativistic view.

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  318. 318
    Cornelius Townedge (@seti2342)'s avatar
    Cornelius Townedge (@seti2342) on January 8, 2015 at 3:31 pm

    I don’t doubt it.

    But let me feign ignorance, and ask your familiarity with the case….

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  319. 319
    oetpay's avatar
    oetpay on January 8, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    Just to pick the first inaccuracy I noticed while skimreading – Cannabis is the second most common date rape drug. Cocaine is the third most common date rape drug. Alcohol is the first.

    Have you considered researching your point before making it?

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  320. 320
    rob willows's avatar
    rob willows on January 8, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    how can the 2 have corroborated? one got guilty the other not guilty? surely if they had corroborated they both would have got not guilty?

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  321. 321
    Marie Lowe's avatar
    Marie Lowe on January 8, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    Pretentious,ignorant and completely uneducated article. Padded out to look intelligent. Lacks integrity and insight. Stick to your Gilly Cooper novels as this article is nothing more than a fantastical literary farce and shows no understanding of sociological or lawful practises. In fact,it is the authors belief that a caveman with an english literature degree wrote this piece!

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  322. 322
    Katie defends ‘rapist’ Ched Evans!! | ORL Entertainment on January 8, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    […] CHED EVANS: Not the account you’re being given by the mainstream media […]

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  323. 323
    the ghost's avatar
    the ghost on January 8, 2015 at 3:16 pm

    Then i admit am a serious halfwit,

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  324. 324
    Lee stephenson's avatar
    Lee stephenson on January 8, 2015 at 3:15 pm

    he has payed his price now let him play football what’s in the lad was born to do he’s only human

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  325. 325
    rob willows's avatar
    rob willows on January 8, 2015 at 3:14 pm

    In all fairness the 19 year old woman went to the hotel for a threesome and with the small thought in her mind that she could be a footballers wife (glitz, glamour and wealth). when she awoke next morning she felt ridiculed and disgusted with herself and cried rape. Both players should have got same verdict, how can one be guilty and the other walk away? not even an accessory to rape? she should be brought to the court for wasting taxpayers money in a case which basically earmarked her as 19 year old woman who would do anything for a better life, even if that meant sleeping with 2 footballers at the same time. She knew what she was doing and the next morning when her rose tinted glasses had worn off and reality set in she cried rape

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  326. 326
    Kevin Richardson's avatar
    Kevin Richardson on January 8, 2015 at 3:14 pm

    A spent conviction should be exactly that (especially a dodgy one like this) when you have done your time punishment should be over when a MP is convicted of fraud they are not banned from earing money again so why should he be. also if she was a s drunk as the judge says how can the jury know if she gave concent or even raped the men

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  327. 327
    Lesley's avatar
    Lesley on January 8, 2015 at 3:06 pm

    ITS time every one got off the guys back and gave him a break. They keep saying he has only served half his sentence but actually the law lets you out of prison after serving half your sentence for good behaviour. Why should he show remorse and say he’s sorry for what he’s done when he’s protesting his innocence and appealing against his conviction.. He’s definitely not Being arrogant about it all as he’s keeping out of the limelight. It’s only the people and reporters that’s trying to destroy him that’s keeping him in the limelight. I hope he gets his his footy career back

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    Steven Andrews's avatar
    Steven Andrews on January 8, 2015 at 3:02 pm

    The only guilty thing I can see here is your murder of the English language.

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    JohnnyBoy's avatar
    JohnnyBoy on January 8, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    This is an excellent, excellent article. I was recently talking with somebody about whether the NHS-rape-posters (advising that a lot of sexual assaults happen when the victim is inebriated) were victim-blaming, or whether it was correct to remind people that booze lowers senses of risk, danger, responsibility and inhibition. I got robustly shitcanned for suggesting the latter. Have not been able to even discuss it since.

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    Steve's avatar
    Steve on January 8, 2015 at 2:44 pm

    In times gone by nothing would have happened actually.

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    Bev Cliffe's avatar
    Bev Cliffe on January 8, 2015 at 2:36 pm

    He has served his time and should be allowed to move on. As for threats on the families of Oldham staff, what has this country come to? Words fail me.

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    Coops's avatar
    Coops on January 8, 2015 at 2:36 pm

    Glad someone speaks sense on this issue. Fawn all you like about Evan’s but don’t suggest for a second he isn’t a convicted rapist, he’s been found guilty through a system with a lot of valuable integrity. He can fight the idea that he’s innocent all he likes but until he PROVES otherwise, he’s GUILTY.

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    Steph's avatar
    Steph on January 8, 2015 at 2:29 pm

    How can people say he is innocent! He IS a CONVICTED rapest! And how do you know this information is even true? How do you know some stupid fan has just made it up to try to defend his actions? He is a rapest who has NOT served his time he should not be on our streets let alone going back into football! His victim can’t go back to her old life! She has move and changed her name 5 times, she can not see her family or her friends she is isolated but he did this to her and he can live his life as if nothing has happened! He should go back to prison where he belongs and let the big blocks in the showers deal with him and see how he likes it!!

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  334. 334
    Joe's avatar
    Joe on January 8, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    Joking around with a friend on twitter that she’s onto a winner and will buy her a brand new mini cooper a few hours prior to all of this (The tweet was deleted for obvious reasons) meant she was fully aware of her actions. CCTV showed her walking (and running) in high heels once she realised she forgotten her pizza. I mean she was definately sober enough to consent and even the hotel staff member went to the room and heard a few groans, one being a woman and left them to it as at no point he felt the need to raise an alarm.

    We live in a culture nowadays where no one can defend themselves and I’ll probably get slaughtered now but all the facts slowly add up and get ignored that he may actually be innocent.

    If you want more search for the website his girlfriend, yes his girlfriend made and maintained and stood by him. If he was surely an arsehole, why would she. That to me shows massive signs of his character as a person that the media doesn’t want you to know.

    Obviously this is my opinion and rape should not be condoned but there is a lot more to this that meets the eye and one day the full truth will hopefully be known.

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    Martin Ellis's avatar
    Martin Ellis on January 8, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    Good article, but there are a couple points I’d like to take issue with. Where is the evidence that McDonald and Evans plied this girl with more alcohol, once they’d got back to the hotel room? And just how drunk was she?

    All the accounts I can find, suggest that by her own admission, she had consumed two large glasses of wine when she finished work. We don’t know the alcoholic strength of this wine, but in my experience they usually range between 9% and 13%, with the average being around 11%. There was then a break, while she went home, took a shower and changed her clothes. It can be suggested therefore, that at at least SOME of the effects of this initial consumption, would have worn off, as her body processed the alcohol during this time.

    She then went out to a night club, where again, by her own admission, she consumed four double vodkas (with lemonade) and a shot of sambucca. All the accounts I’ve seen, suggest that ALL of this alcohol was consumed BEFORE she arrived at the kebab shop, where the evidence shows that she then spent at least an hour, BEFORE she entered into conversation with McDonald outside the kebab shop.

    The police didn’t take blood samples until late the following day and these tests found no alcohol in her system at all – probably because of the length of time (12 hours+ ?)between her last consumption and the time the samples were taken. There is therefore no accurate means, by which her precise level of intoxication at the time she reached the hotel, could be back calculated, though it was estimated that she may have been 2.5 times the legal drink driving limit from what she admitted to having drunk. The tests did though, show that she had consumed both cannabis and cocaine, within the previous few days. She admitted in court to taking both drugs (but not on the night in question)and there was no evidence that these, or any other drugs, were supplied to her, by either McDonald, or Evans on the night in question.

    CCTV footage from the hotel entrance and foyer, shows the girl and McDonald arrive by taxi. She got out of the front passenger seat of the taxi unaided, except for McDonald opening the door of the taxi for her. She can then clearly be seen walking into the hotel entrance linking arms with McDonald, but not in a manner which suggested that she needed any support.She certainly was not physically carried into the hotel, as some of the media tried to make out. Half way across the foyer, she leaves McDonald and walks unaided back out of the hotel entrance, to retrieve a pizza box, which had been left on the pavement outside. She bends down and picks up the pizza box one handed, and then walks back into the foyer to rejoin McDonald again completely unaided.

    I’ve seen no evidence which suggests any more alcohol was consumed either by the girl, by McDonald, or by Evans, once they got back to the hotel. The CCTV footage does not appear to show McDonald carrying anything when he arrived with the girl(e.g. a bottle). In fact they would’t have had much time to consume any. The evidence suggests that Evans arrived at the hotel about 10 minutes after the McDonald had arrived with the girl and by that time it seems McDonald was already in the process of having sex with her!

    Weather or not she actually consented to sex with either or both these men, only those present in the room could know and since she claimed to have no memory of the events in that room, even she does not know if she consented or not.

    But the whole idea that she was “too drunk” to consent to sex, seems decidedly dodgy to me.

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    Leanne's avatar
    Leanne on January 8, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    I believe that the issue is that he was convicted of rape.
    He has denied it and is said to appeal but at present he has been convicted as belived to have committed rape.
    I think it is more so the precendence that if he gets his public status back with this conviction the public fears it will give off the wrong impression that you can commit rape and return to continue to play professional football or what ever high profile career.

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    A S's avatar
    A S on January 8, 2015 at 2:12 pm

    Please read this before you call the case a ‘farce’. The low conviction rate of rape means that there is more evidence than you see in the ‘media’. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/part/1/crossheading/rape

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    neil doherty's avatar
    neil doherty on January 8, 2015 at 2:12 pm

    He should be allowed to get on with he’s life shame he wasn’t a Muslim he would have walked free seems in this country them people can do what they like chad Evans done his time now its time to move on

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    Ben Jonas's avatar
    Ben Jonas on January 8, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    Such a shame for him, football career shouldn’t be ended. If I was a manger I would sign him up after all his time is done and hes not acted out as if he is a rapist and there’s no real proof. These football managers are stupid if I’m honest. What’s done is done now they should let him rebuild his life and career but they are stopping that. Good luck to you in the near future hope you get somewhere. Society nowadays..

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    Tom Davies's avatar
    Tom Davies on January 8, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    Couldn’t agree more with essentially everything written here. Pretty much a mirror image of what has been going through my mind since this case first came to light and I remember thinking how absurd it was at the time.

    Another point to be considered is the factors involved in overturning this decision, if that should turn out to be the case – which I believe, considering everything, should happen. Clearly if Ched Evans is found not guilty he will have wrongly served time in prison and will most probably pursue a claim for loss of earnings compensation as well as tarnished reputation etc. the point being that this bill will be footed by the taxpayer. I just hope that the decision in considering this appeal is not influenced at all by this and we will finally see a correct verdict.

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    Mike's avatar
    Mike on January 8, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    There isn’t much evidence against the verdict in this article, in fact you seem to have painted it as if the only evidence was that she said she was raped and the judge believed her, which is not sufficient evidence otherwise the 90ish% of rape cases that get thrown out of court for having a lack of evidence would all be guilty verdicts instead.

    Why has this article not addressed the actual evidence such as the time of the text made from Evans in comparison to the time the video of her looking tipsy was? Or the wit ESS statement from the guy that worked on hotel reception? Or the mobile phone footage recovered from Evan’s mates trying to film the sex through the hotel window without her knowing? Maybe if you’d spent less time bizarrely trying to say the media are morons for saying Savile groomed the nation because that is ‘physically impossible’ you would have had some time to actually talk about the evidence and what you think is flawed about it.

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    JK's avatar
    JK on January 8, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    “.. Does that make me a victim of rape”

    Did you want to have sex with that person before you couldn’t remember? If no then yes you were raped.

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    Joey's avatar
    Joey on January 8, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    he wasn’t convicted for spiking her drink. he was convicted for having sex with her against her consent. that is something only she can give.

    he hasn’t “served his time”. he was released half way through his sentence and his conviction remains unspent.

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    JK's avatar
    JK on January 8, 2015 at 1:32 pm

    “We always have to fight our case or we are labelled as rapists ”

    As a man I do not feel this way. I feel that ‘we’ have to stand up against these people whom of which 98% turn out to be guilty. Very few cases are made up.

    Women have the right to say NO at any point. Men have to be responsible for their actions and if they can’t determine whether someone it too drunk to consent then that is their issue not the girls.

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    gerard's avatar
    gerard on January 8, 2015 at 1:27 pm

    Drunken men should take responsibility for their actions? Yes, R v Caldwell.

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    sick of media misinformation's avatar
    sick of media misinformation on January 8, 2015 at 1:18 pm

    What a well written article. Brings convenient mainstream media misinformation in to perspective and also adds opinion for a healthy debate on female v male accountability and inebriation. I can’t help but think that Mr Evans has paid a price because of his fame and a woman’s misleading testimony to cover embarrassment for her actions.

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    Susie Troop's avatar
    Susie Troop on January 8, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    You have confused some of the evidence in this trial I believe- Evans was found guilty because the victim was too drunk to consent, not allegedly drugged, as you state. I’ve followed this case closely and yours are the only references I’ve found to the victim claiming to have been drugged, or claiming to be just a bit tipsy. I’d be interested to know where you got this information, but please know that if it’s from Evans’, or any of his supporters’ propaganda websites I probably won’t be taking much notice!

    You complain about a journalist using the term “convicted rapist” but I couldn’t help but notice your use of the phrase “alleged victim”. To clarify, journalists use the word ‘alleged’ to indicate that ongoing legal proceedings have not yet established guilty or innocence. This is not the case here: A trial has occurred, a guilty verdict was reached, this was subsequently held up on appeal with words to the effect of: ‘there are no grounds for doubting the original verdict’. So really, we’re not talking about something that ‘allegedly’ happened, and the only reasoning I can see for using that word is to betray a suspicion that the victim is lying.

    The fact that Evans has another appeal pending is meaningless: So long as his in-laws keep writing checks to the lawyers, I suspect Evans will keep appealing. An appeal is not an indication of innocence, just an indication that someone has good clever attorneys who know their way around the loopholes of the law, and enough money to pay them.

    I’m happy to note that you would not take a girl home if she drunkenly stumbled into your path having clearly tied on one too many to be making rational decisions. I wonder if you’re aware that Clayton McDonald first encountered the victim as he was stepping over her on the floor of the kebab shop where she had fallen. The role of alcohol in rape cases makes the rules around consent very confusing. Obviously if a man and woman both have sex drunk this is not rape, but there has to be an allowance in the prosecution of these cases because some predators (men or women) will use alcohol, just as some use other drugs, to incapacitate a person, or, like you say they may keep a lookout for women who are alone and vulnerable. There are also other dynamics at play here- and a couple meeting and having sex drunk is a very different dynamic than a situation in which there is one drunk female and two not-drunk men (four if you include the two trying to film the rape through the window) who are strong professional athletes.

    It is a good thing for real discussion to occur, but in order for this to happen, people really need to stop pointing fingers at “man-hating feminists” and “armies of women” picking on poor Evans- I don’t know if it’s escaped your notice, Evans supporters, but a large number of those protesting against Evans are men! The whole “butch dyke bitches trying to take over the planet” stereotype doesn’t work so well when the ‘man-haters’ are men, but that doesn’t stop most comments just conveniently ignoring this fact. The assertion that it’s ‘only a bunch of women’ who are angry about this so no biggie is both hella insulting and highly inaccurate. There are a lot of men out there who don’t want Evans representing their beautiful game: This is not ‘mob rule’, it’s simply the population of the United Kingdom making their views heard in a democratic fashion. Nobody is demanding that Evans be immediately returned to prison, we just don’t want to see a rapist walk hand in hand with a smiling child onto a football pitch and get cheered on while his supporters sing rape chants. Let’s not forget that lots of women are football supporters too, and some of them, sadly, will also be rape survivors. It’s their beautiful game too!

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    Loopy's avatar
    Loopy on January 8, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    See the way most comments are made by men sticking up for men no one was In the room so no one knows what really happened makes me sick the way you’s goin on think about what she went threw men selfish

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    Cheryl's avatar
    Cheryl on January 8, 2015 at 12:49 pm

    “Why is a woman devoid of inhibition allowed to shout rape …”

    That is a rather broad view and has nothing to do with this particular situation. I don’t disagree that this does happen a lot of the time but it didn’t happen here. The girl in question did not “cry rape”.

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    Stephen.'s avatar
    Stephen. on January 8, 2015 at 12:49 pm

    Brilliant article – It’s amazing how little these journalist research before spouting bollocks about Ched.

    ‘He was convicted by a jury’ is noted, but no one questions that? It was based on one drunk woman’s account trying to clear her own shame and guilt, in my opinion.

    It’s amazing that he was convicted on such evidence – It’s actually scary, really. If all it takes to get a five year sentence is one girl saying she can’t remember then there is 100s and 1000s of people in Britain every year guilty, I’m sure.

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    Lorraine's avatar
    Lorraine on January 8, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    I was all against Ched Evans, and now reading it all through, I believe that the young ladies in question was quite drunk with the amount drunk before and afterwards, my memory would certainly be impaired. And was a bit star stuck as they say, she maybe just want to sleep with one, but when realising that she couldn’t remember, then decides to call rape.
    I think it was wrong of the two men to take advantage of a young drunken girl, like many have in the past.
    I believe in second chances, but as for being allowed to go playing football again in the public eye is wrong, it just sends out the wrong signals of the youth of today.
    Good luck to Ched Evans what ever you do in your future, but to play football professionally, not a good idea sorry

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    In my opinion's avatar
    In my opinion on January 8, 2015 at 12:38 pm

    The brilliant thing about opinions is they do not need to be based on evidence. In my opinion someone who is astute enough to use the word polemic would be aware of this but in this instance my opinion appears to be wrong!

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    Julie's avatar
    Julie on January 8, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    I wasn’t at the trial so obviously don’t know all the evidence but as a woman I will say this (and probably be hung drawn and quartered for it!) why the hell would you meet a stranger in the street and go back to their hotel room???? That only ever means sex, or possibly your about to be murdered! Also I have issue with anyone, male or female being that inebriated that you can’t remember a thing. You have to take responsibility for yourself and if you don’t you are to blame for that no one else! Also if she can’t remember anything how the hell does she know she was raped? As a woman you would wake up and think oh shit what happened and if the guys told you you’d think oh my god I’m so embarrassed and feel like a slut and hopefully never put yourself in that position again! As for Chad what a horrible man to be dating and sleeping around! However that crime is only morally wrong not against the law. Much like her actions were morally wrong too! Leave him be. He’s done his time possibly unfairly we do not know. As an earlier woman stated ‘ As a woman, I empathise with her….’ Your joking right? As a woman she makes me feel ashamed to be one due to her careless, stupid, ignorant attitude.

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    jon's avatar
    jon on January 8, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    There are some inaccurate facts here, but I agree with most of your points. This is an account of the trial
    here – https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

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  355. 355
    T's avatar
    T on January 8, 2015 at 12:25 pm

    I have a couple of comments regarding your blog. You mention that the 19 year old wakes up in the same room as the men and feels confused. This is not actually the case if you read the appeal case notes you will find that Ched Evans and his friend had left the room before she woke up. Ched left through the fire exit and his friend through the front. If Ched Evans had not done anything wrong why leave through the fire exit? Also a point I don’t believe you picked up on was the FACT that Ched Evans had to “talk” his way into getting a room key by saying his friend was no longer using the room. The last point I would like to make is that the 19 year old girl had agreed to have sexual intercourse with Ched Evans friend hence why he is innocent. The main assumption is that she had not agreed to have sex with Ched because he forced his way into the room without her knowledge of his arrival. Yes she has no memory and yes she was more drunk than she said she was but that does not excuse ANYONE from joining in with sexual intercourse without someones approval. https://www.crimeline.info/uploads/cases/2012ewcacrim2559.pdf

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    robc's avatar
    robc on January 8, 2015 at 12:19 pm

    I just like to point out Brian Banks on America he was convicted and served time for a similar offence. He is innocent not saying the same thing here but we can’t judge on what the media say.

    If he was guilty don’t you think he would not want to be in the spotlight as it then makes him look like what they are saying he is “arrogant”

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    Rikki's avatar
    Rikki on January 8, 2015 at 12:17 pm

    Ched “hi would you do the honour of having sexual intercourse with me”

    Girl “certainly you have my consent”

    BOLLOCKS! They got drunk had sex (as you do). She felt like shit and played victim, total bitch

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    Steve Slater's avatar
    Steve Slater on January 8, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    Timothy Evans, Birmingham 6….I could go on.

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    Rikki's avatar
    Rikki on January 8, 2015 at 12:09 pm

    The judge and jury must have been her family members … Shocking conviction. That girl should be head hunted for trying to ruin peoples lives!

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    Daz68's avatar
    Daz68 on January 8, 2015 at 12:09 pm

    He was released early on licence for good behaviour as are most criminals

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    Tom Brady's avatar
    Tom Brady on January 8, 2015 at 12:07 pm

    This is a well thought out arguement and I believe many who have loud, strong opinions are not aware of these salient facts, or choose to ignore them.

    We are observing baying, pack behaviour here that is seeking to continue Evan’s punishment long after he has served his prison sentence. He is being used as a flogging scapegoat for all of the other unconvicted or uncharged rapists never brought before the courts.

    The fact that Evens is silent allows the pack to cry, ‘No apology! No remorse! Therefore continued abuse, vile media attention and no career are fully justified.’ Few address the fact that he has never admitted guilt and has a legal criminal review in process which is taking it’s slow journey towards conclusion.

    Will the journalists and the baying pack apologise to Evans if his conviction is overturned? Somehow I doubt it.

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    Nix's avatar
    Nix on January 8, 2015 at 12:06 pm

    Unfortunately I too, as a woman must also be guilty of rape as I too, have woken up next to a naked man (on more than one occasion and sometimes with another female friend) not knowing if I first gained his consent before having drunken sex – therefore someone please call the police!

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  363. 363
    John bennett's avatar
    John bennett on January 8, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    Why Should cheddar Evans have to say sorry when all the time he has pleaded his innocence,maybe the girl is not as innocent as she thinks she is Same old story it’s always the male who is guilty

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    Tim's avatar
    Tim on January 8, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    while I agree with some of the criticisms of the press reaction in section 2, you’re interpretation of the case in section 1 is woefully off.

    For one thing, both guys were sober. For another no drink was taken at the hotel. She consented to going back with McDonald not evans – so it is very different to your example.

    I think he is guilty but has done his time and everyone should move on

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    Nix's avatar
    Nix on January 8, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    Robot!

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    Ben Gos's avatar
    Ben Gos on January 8, 2015 at 11:54 am

    This is possibly the worst article, both in terms of accuracy and message, I have read in my life. “Why is a woman devoid of inhibition allowed to shout rape….?” What else is she supposed to say if she WAS raped then?! You’re now suggesting that it’s fair game to rape someone as long as they’re pissed?! What a complete tool.
    And for those saying “he’s served his time” he hasn’t actually, he’s got 2 years of his license yet.

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  367. 367
    Linda warren's avatar
    Linda warren on January 8, 2015 at 11:51 am

    He his family and surpporters should stop saying vile and threating things some of the comments are disgusting , they are not bothered about destroying her life if fact some of them on Facebook are openly having a great laugh at what they would do to her ,he wants a life than let her have hers back than people mainly women might back off

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    Maria's avatar
    Maria on January 8, 2015 at 11:44 am

    He’s not arrogant, he simply won’t apologise for something he didn’t do. If he’s adamant he didn’t do it, why should he apologise? I feel for woman who do actually get raped but a lot of women out there these days ‘take the piss’.
    He’s done time, he should be able to continue with his life. His skill (and job) is football, let him play!

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  369. 369
    Daniel's avatar
    Daniel on January 8, 2015 at 11:40 am

    I am of the opinion that Ched should be allowed to play football again. The issue is that he is a role model to young kids, I get that and kids can be impressionable but if a kid grows up wanting to be a rapist then that’s more down to the raising of the child, any normal functioning person knows between right and wrong but because your favourite football player was accused of rape and convicted “whether correctly or not” doesn’t give you the right to do it.

    IF the appeal goes through and it is found that Ched is guilty then he should apologise for what he has done and be locked away to serve the remainder of his time behind bars. However if on the other hand he is found to be innocent then he should get public a public apology from all MP’s, High profile sponsors of clubs, Athletes and everyone else who was quick to brand him a rapist. He will never get those 2.5 years back and the judge who convicted him should be dismissed.

    The thing that gets me is constant cries for him to show remorse, to apologise for what he has done. I am sorry but if I believed I didn’t commit a crime then I am not going to apologise for it.

    Then there’s the fact that other players have been allowed to come back to football after other instances. For example i believe it was Oldham who signed Lee Hughes after he was imprisoned for causing death by dangerous driving whilst intoxicated. So by that logic you can kill someone and come back and play football but not in Cheds case.

    Then theres the fact that one was convicted and one was released. That just begs the question of HOW was that possible? I personally feel like there too many questions like this for the conviction to be correct.

    I hope that what ever the appeal brings whether the conviction is over turned or not, the people involved in this can move on and live their lives.

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  370. 370
    Allan Rumsey's avatar
    Allan Rumsey on January 8, 2015 at 11:39 am

    Rape is too easy too prove . He had sex, she sees money and cries rape. He looses a life and she gets £20000. NOT FAIR 😠

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    Jamie's avatar
    Jamie on January 8, 2015 at 11:33 am

    Is this article written by a male or female?

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    Mark Grover's avatar
    Mark Grover on January 8, 2015 at 11:27 am

    the bloke thinks hes untouchable because hes a footballer, a bit of a joey barton imo…time will tell about his future, but one thing is for sure he will never play international football…

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  373. 373
    annalouiseadams's avatar
    annalouiseadams on January 8, 2015 at 11:07 am

    Firstly, your argument regarding the spiked drink is totally irrelevant. The complainant had been out before meeting the men, so her suspicions that she may have been spiked could easily have been referring to before she met the two men.

    Second, I think it’s a trivialisation to rape that you have taken it upon yourself to dismiss a young girls claim, which resulted in a conviction enforced by a court of law and a jury. Your arguments of personal responsibility are fine, but it is also up to other people to recognise when someone else is perhaps not in a state of enough consciousness to consent to sex. Hence why Evans was consented. The judge found that he had reason to believe that the complainant was unable to consent to sex, yet continued to have sex with her anyway.

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  374. 374
    rach's avatar
    rach on January 8, 2015 at 11:03 am

    hi if my daughter went to a holel room with a stranger she meet on the street then another stranger joined them well asking for trouble! i hope iv raised my daughter better cuz come on at 19 you should of nown better! So the only people who nos the truth are the 3 that was there Learn from ur poor jugement !!!!! oh one last thing as we all have our own opion funny how the highter paied footballer got found gulity …………

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    Dixiedeano's avatar
    dixiedeano on January 8, 2015 at 10:50 am

    You have put into words the opinion i hold about this. The worst is, I’ve found, by agreeing with your opinion you/ we then becomes labeled with condoning rape.
    To me, hysteria has set in with the public, fuelled by the press. Furthermore, he has been convicted, done his time, and is out now….is a further penalty to be imposed, by making him unempoylable? As I understand this case, he is, or has, lodged an appeal, and untill all court actions have been exhausted, we should not be hanging this man out to dry.

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  376. 376
    EJ's avatar
    EJ on January 8, 2015 at 10:50 am

    Presumed guilt??? We have a legal process for a reason that has ‘determined’ guilt. There is no longer anything for Ms Moore to presume.

    Your misogynistic leanings are clearly highlighted in your bitchy and unnecessarily personal ‘three kids by three fathers’ comment. That, my dear, is far more childish than anything Ms Moore said.

    Society is calling time on the sexually aggressive and predatory attitudes that still linger amongst its rank. Wake up!

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  377. 377
    consensusinpolitics's avatar
    consensusinpolitics on January 8, 2015 at 10:47 am

    Reblogged this on Social Thought and commented:
    A really interesting piece on the current issues which really bring the issue behind sexual allegations in the UK to light. It demonstrates that once you are linked to the world in will tarnish your forever, regardless of guilty.
    -Alastair

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  378. 378
    Simon Stephenson's avatar
    Simon Stephenson on January 8, 2015 at 10:36 am

    “Did she consent to sex with Ched? The answer is no”

    From the evidence, this is not the case.

    Evans clearly believes that she gave consent, and the girl/woman claims to have no recollection of whether she did or not.

    The case against Evans isn’t that she didn’t indicate consent, but that she was in such a state of inebriation that she wasn’t capable of giving it. Evans was found guilty of rape on the basis that the law requires him to judge whether or not the girl/woman was capable of giving consent, and that in this case it would, in the opinion of the jury, have been unreasonable for him to have concluded that she was capable of doing this.

    And as a result of this he has had to spend 30 months in jail, and to spend the rest of his life as the whipping boy for a bunch of agenda-pursuing feminists.

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  379. 379
    Mary Gilbert's avatar
    Mary Gilbert on January 8, 2015 at 10:19 am

    I agree. Never in a million years would I go to a hotel room with two men unless I was prepared to have sex. If it was for a drink I would have gone to a pub.

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  380. 380
    Simon Stephenson's avatar
    Simon Stephenson on January 8, 2015 at 10:16 am

    “12 people can’t be wrong”.

    I’d suggest that you tell that to Timothy Evans, but you can’t, since he was hanged for the murder of his wife and daughter. Evans consistently denied having done this, but a jury of “12 people” decided that he was lying, and he was convicted for the murders.

    During his trial, Evans accused his neighbour, John Christie, of having carried out the murders, and a few years after Evans’ execution, it was discovered that Christie was, in reality, a serial killer. Christie confessed to murdering Mrs Evans, and an official inquiry in 1966 concluded that Christie had also murdered Evans’ daughter.

    But then, since “12 people can’t be wrong”, Timothy Evans must have done it, right? And therefore everything that was discovered and concluded subsequently must have been wrong.

    LikeLike

  381. 381
    Alice's avatar
    Alice on January 8, 2015 at 10:14 am

    What I find an issue with this article is how trivial you make it sound. Both had sex with her and filmed it. That is a sex crime within itself – it’s happened to a friend and the guy got arrested and taken to court. The issue here lies that he doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong – not the filming or taking advantage. Maybe it wasn’t what many consider rape, but why would she say so in order to be continually harassed and have to move homes 5 times? Her life is now hell because some idiots think it’s ok what he did and eagerly want him back in football. Realistically do people really care if he goes back? No, they want to jump in the bandwagon and victim blame as it’s always ever so easy.

    LikeLike

  382. 382
    matmanlives's avatar
    matmanlives on January 8, 2015 at 9:51 am

    My favorite rent a statement on the whole thing is how he has not yet apologised.
    He is seeking appeal, and vehemently denies any wrong doing.
    Why would he apologise if he has done nothing wrong and plans to prove as much at the appeal hearing.
    The whole trial has been a witch hunt from the off. Ched was never going to get an impartial hearing, as too many of the cases details were circulated before trial, ‘tainting’ any verdict with Ill informed bile such as the Moore article and many more.
    It’s an evocative subject everyone will have some sort of opinion on, but if he is found innocent on appeal, how many of these articles casting him as a monster, will issue a full rebuke? Or will the tact change from ‘convicted’ to ‘ no smoke without fire’. This stigma will stick with Ched for the rest of his life now. Look at mathew Kelly, found innocent at trial, but no one forgets what he was on trial for!
    Evans was a victim of his own design, in that he cheated on his girlfriend with a young intoxicated Woman, there is no getting away from the error in judgement and moral questionmarks over his conduct. However, even for his mistakes, from the details of the trial published by both parties, there seem to be some dangerous assumptions banded about that the young ladies own choices after a night on the tiles, somehow all rest on mr Evans’ freedom and livelihood.

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  383. 383
    Thursday's avatar
    Thursday on January 8, 2015 at 9:38 am

    ‘3. Judge Merfyn Hughes allowed for the alleged victim being pissed, but somehow this just isn’t on for the two blokes. How does the judge know that the men hadn’t gradually lost their inhibitions during a day of steady alcohol consumption? Why is a woman devoid of inhibition allowed to shout rape, but guys in the same condition are supposed to keep a clear head and take 200% of the responsibility for good behaviour?’

    so victims of assault whilst intoxicated should take a certain level of responsibility for what happened to them?

    Should Cerys Yemm hold a certain level of responsibility to what happened to her? Should Matthew Williams’ behaviour be excused because he was intoxicated?

    ‘…and also OK to take no cognisance whatsoever of a 19 year old woman’s lifestyle and outlook on casual sex’

    you also suggest that the victims lifestyle choices should be used against her. If so then shouldn’t Ched Evans’ lifestyle choices be brought up. Not only was he more than happy to participate in casual sex, he also cheated on his partner, which should put in to question what type of person he is.

    So few cases of rape end in convictions, I find it hard to believe that a judge would take a decision lightly to find someone guilty.

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  384. 384
    Paul Schofield's avatar
    Paul Schofield on January 8, 2015 at 9:17 am

    On a determinate sentence (given length) such as what he was sentenced to it carries an automatic release date of half the sentence.

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  385. 385
    Joanne's avatar
    Joanne on January 8, 2015 at 9:13 am

    I feel he has done his time and I struggle to believe this situation was all his fault?? She went back to the hotel room so I’m sorry she knew wat she was getting herself into. I hope they both can move on from this give him a chance and let him clear his name!

    LikeLike

  386. 386
    Rick Adkinson's avatar
    Rick Adkinson on January 8, 2015 at 8:50 am

    Here, here………..

    Private Capital Limited is regulated in Hong Kong by the Hong Kong SFC. Private Capital Limited is also a member of the Hong Kong Confederation of Insurance Brokers.

    This Email and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient all copies of this Email and any other associated files in your possession should be destroyed. Access, copying, dissemination, distribution or re-use of the information in this Email and any attached files by anyone other than the addressee is unauthorised. Email communications are not secure and therefore Private Capital Limited does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Private Capital Limited. Thank you.

    LikeLike

  387. 387
    Dawn's avatar
    Dawn on January 8, 2015 at 8:41 am

    He has not done his time as he is on licence, not parole, this means he serves the rest of his sentence outside of prison. One foot wrong and he would be back inside to serve the remainder of his time.

    The woman went to the police station to report a missing handbag, not rape!

    There are too many things that do not add up. Evidence that was omitted from the trial, that was obtained by the defence.

    The amount of drunken one night stands that happen on a weekend where one or the other or both wake up and regret it next day will be huge, do they result in accusations of rape??? No they result in people vowing not to drink again, but a week later they will be out and drinking again!

    The fact the an inquiry has been started shows that there is doubt with regards to the conviction and will most likely end up allowing for an appeal where the omitted evidence will play a huge part.

    It wouldn’t be the first time that a conviction of rape has been overturned.

    Rape is a horrific ordeal, but the facts and evidence have to be 100% true.

    LikeLike

  388. 388
    Symon's avatar
    Symon on January 8, 2015 at 8:35 am

    I see the petition against his playing for lowly Oldham Athletic is 48,000 strong. Not bad for a team that averages crowds of less than 5,000.

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  389. 389
    Terry B's avatar
    Terry B on January 8, 2015 at 8:35 am

    She claims she didn’t remember so only 2 know what happened and they corroborated each other.

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  390. 390
    Joanne Mckenna's avatar
    Joanne Mckenna on January 8, 2015 at 8:28 am

    I have read your article and also been onto the Ched Evans case site and cannot believe this man has been charged with rape, like you say there are massive holes in this case and very vague evidence to warrant ruining a mans career, taking years away of his life were he should have been with his family and now potentionally ruining any future career he may want to have. I feel strongly that it is going to come out that this has been a big miscarriage of justice towards him although I do accept that he put himself into the situation were this could happen to him and for that he and any other future footballers need to wise up on nights out .

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  391. 391
    katekatebobs's avatar
    katekatebobs on January 8, 2015 at 8:28 am

    They’re not! You can also go to the police if you think you’ve been raped… The fact is, she went to the hotel with one guy, it’s the guy that sneaked in in the dark that’s the convicted rapist.

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  392. 392
    katekatebobs's avatar
    katekatebobs on January 8, 2015 at 8:22 am

    Or in this case, if the other ‘persons’…. It isn’t your usual one night stand let’s face it

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  393. 393
    Hannah's avatar
    Hannah on January 8, 2015 at 8:15 am

    She didn’t go to bed with two strangers, she went to bed with one. The other (ched) climbed through the window after being texted by his friend. For me that changes things.

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  394. 394
    John's avatar
    John on January 8, 2015 at 8:14 am

    the main reason (which is glossed over in this article) is she went back with 1 man clayton not 2, the second turned up after some texts back and forth between ched and clayton.

    So even if she consented to having sex with clayton it is still possible to not have given consent to ched.

    He turned up uninvited by her.

    Like others have said only those three know what happened but unfortunately ched has become a poster boy for making stupid decisions and paying the ultimate cost.

    If this resonates with a young lad who is getting into football that some how finds himself in a similar situation (before going to tag in with a fellow footballer) he just may think do I want to end my football career like ched did.

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  395. 395
    Adam Morris's avatar
    Adam Morris on January 8, 2015 at 6:59 am

    Thanks for writing this, it is the best piece I have read on the subject.

    LikeLike

  396. 396
    gellatley's avatar
    gellatmeister on January 8, 2015 at 6:55 am

    Arrogant and smug? He only made one statement since he was released. He is not a prolific and violent sex offender, chances of him re-offending are very slim. He regrets his actions from that night, he’s learnt his lesson. People like you should stop being paranoid over the subjective and irrelevant shite spouted by feminists, who incidentally have no idea who Clayton McDonald is.

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  397. 397
    Dave's avatar
    Dave on January 8, 2015 at 2:43 am

    Everyone seems to be an expert, but nobody seems to have mentioned that some date rate drugs leave the system in as little as 4 hours. Even if this wasn’t part of the picture, what was he doing going second on someone already completely out of it? I see plenty of little rats on a Saturday night hovering around girls close to coma, they are no better than nonces in my book.

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  398. 398
    jibba jabba's avatar
    jibba jabba on January 8, 2015 at 2:14 am

    Obviously just a little skank from Rhyl I was there last weekend the place is a dump and she thought Il take advantage of this guy and see if I can get some free money. Poor lad!!

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  399. 399
    Cornelius Townedge (@seti2342)'s avatar
    Cornelius Townedge (@seti2342) on January 8, 2015 at 1:39 am

    Bang on. Case is a travesty. If our law has any hope then this will be overturned. I look forward to the ignorant baying mob retracting.

    You’d have to be a serious halfwit to think this was rape. Total bollocks.

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  400. 400
    Dean's avatar
    Dean on January 8, 2015 at 1:05 am

    A very well written and thoughtful piece, without emotion and dealing with the facts. Sadly, rarely do we see journalism of this standard which I’ve no doubt is partly the reason why newspaper sales are in severe decline generally. As I get older and more cynical, I’ve realised that most people decide what they think about a story within a few seconds then massage the facts to support their beliefs. I think psychologists call this Confirmation Bias and this is something that the Guardian journalist mentioned above seems to have fallen foul of. As for the accused in this case, no one will ever know what really happened, suffice to say, the jury can merely look at the facts and draw a reasonable conclusion. That’s the way the law works in this country whether you like the outcome, or not. A judgement doesn’t necessarily mean the truth, it means a judgement.

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  401. 401
    netty's avatar
    netty on January 8, 2015 at 12:05 am

    A mans life ruined…wrongly accused I think…!!! On your side mate always have been…

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  402. 402
    Geraldine Eccles's avatar
    Geraldine Eccles on January 7, 2015 at 11:52 pm

    I agree with Michelle and it angers me that girls and women use the law and sudo feminism to shirk the responsibilities they have to themselves and others by taking advantage of the system set up to protect them. For crying out loud! learn to say NO to another drink If you know your horny and/or likely to do something stupid or hold up your hand and say, Yes, I made a mistake, I was an idiot, Oops! Just have a think on the disservice you are doing to those of us who do have there drinks spiked, who are scooped up, taken advantage of and raped. I’d like to know were her mates were and why they didn’t intervene. I like to think of myself as a feminist, I always thought of it as striving for equality between the sexes. So if your a dick and he’s a dick it’s quits.

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  403. 403
    :/'s avatar
    :/ on January 7, 2015 at 11:46 pm

    I want to say I understand some of this article, but honestly, the first part of this just reads as victim blaming. She was drinking, she was a bit drunk, maybe she took drugs (according to the article) so she shouldn’t be allowed to claim it was rape. She has no right to complain. You’re seem to say, she simply shouldn’t claim she was spiked because she had been drinking, so she wasn’t spiked, it was just her fault. Only those in the Hotel room will know what happened that night. But your attitude poses a question- What should women do? Do they have to stay stone cold sober on every night out, in order for their rape claims to be taken seriously?

    If she, in any way, did not want to have sex with him, even if she said yes at the time because she didn’t feel like she could say no, if she said yes and sort of submitted to him, then she was raped.
    It is truly horrendous to see that people just dismiss something traumatic that could happen to a person because they think a trial was unfair, or that we shouldn’t believe the evidence the woman gave about it because she had been drinking. I understand your point, that if they too were drunk, they might not have known what they were doing, or realised, but I still really don’t think that’s enough to blame the woman here, and I’m worried if you do.

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  404. 404
    heirofnothinginparticular's avatar
    heirofnothinginparticular on January 7, 2015 at 11:41 pm

    Not sure it should work like that though.

    LikeLike

  405. 405
    Sean Williams's avatar
    Sean Williams on January 7, 2015 at 11:36 pm

    Enjoyed this blog until you started to discuss the paedophile accusations of jimmy saville and Rolf Harris. There is a massive paedophile ring contained within the government, royal family and certain celebrities. Media refuses to allow this to come out as they protect their best interests.

    LikeLike

  406. 406
    C's avatar
    C on January 7, 2015 at 11:35 pm

    I’m a football agent but I also have
    a family member who has been attacked previously. Rape disgusts me in every way.
    However this article and your observations make it THE best I have read on this whole subject and I would say one of the most balanced pieces I have ever read. Congratulations.

    LikeLike

  407. 407
    Ben's avatar
    Ben on January 7, 2015 at 11:16 pm

    People have soon forgot that there are 2 footballers playing in the English leagues that have killed people this witch hunt has not been put on them! Wether he did it or not he has served his time and should be giving a second chance, but great article pointing out how ridiculous our justice system is!

    LikeLike

  408. 408
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 7, 2015 at 11:12 pm

    Excellent. Doubtless you will return for more.

    LikeLike

  409. 409
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 7, 2015 at 11:11 pm

    ’12 people can’t be wrong’. Of course not. Quite so.

    LikeLike

  410. 410
    Foucalt Tudoux Wimay's avatar
    Foucalt Tudoux Wimay on January 7, 2015 at 11:10 pm

    A serious problem with the legal system in this country is that it is not interested in the truth, and not interested in either the facts or the realiteee. The legal system in this country is game played between the prosecution and the defence as to who can impress the judge more with pavlovian tricks and slick interpretations of the written words of law.
    The judge and counsels are probably well pleased with their performances in the court, and not unduly concerned with what really happened. They don’t even mind that most recent laws (20 years at least) in this country have been very badly drafted.

    There are countless stories of ched-evanses in our courts, there will be countless more until they change the whole principle about how we ‘obtain justice’ in this country.

    Rhetorically please-
    ….. it would hardly have surprised me if the court had determined -with the exact same evidence- that Ched Evans was too drunk to be in control of his actions, and he was (without consent) therefore taken advantage of by the young lady. She may even have been a big strong girl (to boot).
    I say that based on the reported information that the victim did not say she was raped, or did say that she was not raped.

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  411. 411
    Sarah's avatar
    Sarah on January 7, 2015 at 10:57 pm

    She didn’t cry rape. She reported her handbag missing (she was so drunk she left it in the pizza shop). The police and then the CPS took it from there.
    Because she voluntarily went back to the hotel with the other guy, he couldn’t be convicted. Evans turned up halfway through proceedings after his friend texted him ‘I’ve got a bird’ (lovely!), blagged his way into the hotel room while his brother and a friend tried to film the whole sordid incident on their mobiles from the fire escape. Evans then left the hotel via the fire escape. The girl woke up alone in the room as the first guy also left her. She had wet the bed and had to call someone to pick her up because she hadn’t got her bag anymore. These facts are all in the court transcripts which are available online.
    I’m not saying she wasn’t drunk, or stupid, or naive (but I’ve never left my handbag in a kebab shop then peed the bed because I’m so inebriated I don’t know what I’m doing).
    I am saying that most people who make assumptions about her behaviour believe she made the rape allegation and haven’t read the basic facts before saying she’s at fault.
    I don’t expect someone who is likely to try and get their conviction overturned to admit guilt or even accept full responsibility for this incident. I do think however that his associates trying to get her acquaintances to send copies of her social media accounts to a website paid for by his father in law (yes, really) is not a way to encourage sympathy from the general public. Failing to acknowledge any wrongdoing (except to cheating on his doe eyed girlfriend) express any kind of regret, or even make a simple request to his followers to please stop the harassment of this girl and not hound her out of her home again is what I find reprehensible.
    If he is portrayed as the victim of a man-hating witch hunt, she has suffered at least as much. No one comes out of this incident well, not the man convicted, nor his victim. He does however have the comfort of money and the protection that this offers. You can’t say the same of her.

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  412. 412
    mt0045's avatar
    mt0045 on January 7, 2015 at 10:57 pm

    So John he was guilty because he was arrogant? Being arrogant isn’t a crime. Men always have the verdict in sexual assault cases as guilty before proven innocent. We always have to fight our case or we are labelled as rapists or sex offenders and it is wrong. Women complain that men and women aren’t equal think it’s because we get better treatment when in fact that isn’t always the case

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  413. 413
    Fcuk off's avatar
    Fcuk off on January 7, 2015 at 10:43 pm

    You’re a judge the jury and an expert witness on sexual abuse including rape combined I see. Where is the evidence that you base your polemic ‘opinion’ on? If this rant is you being grown up and taking responsibility, I dread to think of you out there in society on a bad day!!

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  414. 414
    Tom's avatar
    Tom on January 7, 2015 at 10:41 pm

    This post is exactly what I have been thinking! I am so relieved to know that at least one other person in this god forsaken country can see the flaw with the boy cry wolf culture! She got drunk, had casual sex and felt bad about it so reported it as rape. If this situation Evans found himself in happened every time a girl made this mistake and took it to the police I’m sure most men in Britain would be locked up right now. In fact, I have woken up numerous times with no idea where I am with a girl there who was in no way drunk the night before.. Does that make me a victim of rape?? This case would suggest yes but it is definitely far from that!

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  415. 415
    Hope's avatar
    Hope on January 7, 2015 at 10:38 pm

    If they put all my youthful drunken mistakes in jail…………… The evidence needs reviewing. I am glad it is going to be. In the mean time I am a great believer in the need to employ released prisoners. I didn’t hear him being setance to a change of profession.

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  416. 416
    Tony's avatar
    Tony on January 7, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    Maybe she agreed to sex with McDonald….
    Dosent give Evans the right tho!

    Drunk or not … If there’s no consent .then it’s rape .simple as that

    LikeLike

  417. 417
    Fred Van Der Puy's avatar
    Fred Van Der Puy on January 7, 2015 at 10:33 pm

    JW,
    Hold fast to your belief in yourself. The world in which we live is insane. It only seems normal until we step out of our cage and look around with the sleepers out of our eyes. The weak among us are so frightened by it that they crawl back into their cage, close the unlocked door behind them, and rage at those who don’t.

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  418. 418
    Tony's avatar
    Tony on January 7, 2015 at 10:32 pm

    Convicted by a jury on evidence they heard and seen…
    12 people can’t be wrong…

    To deny he done it is a joke…
    As far as I believe .to be released on parole you av to admit to your crimes before being considered ?
    Regardless.sex would’ve been consensual if shed said the word YES !

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  419. 419
    s l froz's avatar
    s l froz on January 7, 2015 at 10:28 pm

    How is he acting arrogant ans smug exactly? By being pictured going shopping with his girlfriend, trying to clear his name through the appropriate legal procedures or maybe by trying to rebuild his life and trying to get a job. Wow just wow!

    LikeLike

  420. 420
    Terry B's avatar
    Terry B on January 7, 2015 at 10:25 pm

    Both McDonald and Evans said she consented and the hotel porter heard sounds of people having sex and seemingly enjoying themselves.

    The case was about whether she was too drunk to consent not whether she consented.

    LikeLike

  421. 421
    rbodenham's avatar
    rbodenham on January 7, 2015 at 10:15 pm

    This may be the worst article, in every possible aspect, that I will read in 2015. So kudos.

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  422. 422
    Michael Coulman's avatar
    Michael Coulman on January 7, 2015 at 10:09 pm

    “Why is a woman devoid of inhibition allowed to shout rape, but guys in the same condition are supposed to keep a clear head and take 200% of the responsibility for good behaviour?” Perfect explanation for the behaviour of today’s society with regard to this situation! Very regrettable!

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  423. 423
    Sam's avatar
    Sam on January 7, 2015 at 10:07 pm

    I don’t remember all this fuss when Luke McCormick was released from prison for killing two innocent young boys whilst drink driving, yet he was allowed to resume his career! I know which I think is the worst offence….

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  424. 424
    Orde Solomons's avatar
    Orde Solomons on January 7, 2015 at 9:59 pm

    You’ve hit the nail squarely on the head Mr Ward. Justice should depend more upon logic than it does.

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  425. 425
    Glynis Pearson's avatar
    Glynis Pearson on January 7, 2015 at 9:57 pm

    Only people who know what really happened were in the hotel room. As a female I have empathy with the girl, however if Ched is innocent think it is atrocious that we as a society are misjudging him. Who is to say who is morally right , the girl no doubt was drunk, Ched was in a long term relationship and should not be having casual sex with other women. How does society judge who is the worse offender. The girl at 19 years old should have more sense than to go alone to a hotel room with 2 strangers. It appears the girl was ashamed of her actions so cried rape as her drink was spiked. Awful for both parties, however why should a person who has served prison time be further punished by not being able to return to his former job. His girlfriend has given her support by staying with him, if my boyfriend has strayed with casual sex I would not be so forgiving. Let’s give him a chance, let’s ask ourselves would we apologize if we were innocent? I know I would not because I have the gene that does not let me take the easy option. If innocent I would NEVER say sorry . We will ever know for sure, as a women I say let him move on and return to his job

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  426. 426
    Jim's avatar
    Jim on January 7, 2015 at 9:57 pm

    Show trial?????….. He was found guilty by 12 men and women who heard both sides in this case….. A system we call a fair trial until we hear otherwise.

    LikeLike

  427. 427
    Joe's avatar
    Joe on January 7, 2015 at 9:45 pm

    The guys probably scared out of his mind, an army of women hate him and are trying to stop him from living his life even tho he has served his time. Leave the man alone for crying out loud.

    LikeLike

  428. 428
    dwayne bayes's avatar
    dwayne bayes on January 7, 2015 at 9:36 pm

    What an absolute load of crap, why is it women always deemed as the innocent party, riles me. If she had too much to drink why didn’t she go home to bed like any other normal, responsible adult would do. Answer simple, she is not as innocent as made out to be. Your comment is absolutely atrocious, end of story!

    LikeLike

  429. 429
    owen's avatar
    owen on January 7, 2015 at 9:27 pm

    Being arrogant and smug doesnt make you a rapist, it makes you arrogant and smug.

    LikeLike

  430. 430
    john pettitt's avatar
    john pettitt on January 7, 2015 at 9:26 pm

    darren by name but definatley not smart lol

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  431. 431
    David's avatar
    David on January 7, 2015 at 9:21 pm

    Couldn’t agree with this article more. How does one get off and the other doesn’t?

    The points made cut through this and it makes you wonder how a conviction is given – from studying law I wonder if there was other evidence that never came to light?? Based on above, it’s something that would easily be overturned.

    And if he is innocent, I can understand why he wouldn’t apologise if he feels he is innocent. Tough situation for the lad and made 100 times worse by the portrayal in the media.

    I would stress that if he is guilty then he deserves what has befallen him – you can’t act like that when you’re in the public eye.

    But before jumping to further conclusions, let’s await the outcome of the appeal.

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  432. 432
    bongani's avatar
    bongani on January 7, 2015 at 9:11 pm

    I think none of us but the three of them know as exactly what happened all we can do is speculate with available information. My point is if he did rape her, wasn’t he punished by doing time?
    I have witnessed people released from prison only to reoffened as society still punish them even when they are trying to change. We should let the football clubs make own decisions without any outside influence.

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  433. 433
    Emy's avatar
    Emy on January 7, 2015 at 9:10 pm

    hes done his time I wouldn’t juge him nobody realy nows the truth we all make mistakes he should have a second chance

    LikeLike

  434. 434
    john pettitt's avatar
    john pettitt on January 7, 2015 at 9:05 pm

    do you always judge a book by its cover,you seem to be doing this in your comment john

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  435. 435
    Mags's avatar
    Mags on January 7, 2015 at 8:53 pm

    Few details on here are not accurate,he hasn’t lost an appeal,he hasn’t had one,it was refused while he was in prison,CCRC now looking at the case and can get it to appeal,out of 543 cases they have put forward 347 have had their guilty verdicts overturned which is quite worrying that only 195 were actually guilty according to the appeal court.

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  436. 436
    Ricky Perks's avatar
    Ricky Perks on January 7, 2015 at 8:45 pm

    A very interesting & evocative piece.

    I wrote an article on this subject myself if you get the chance to read it: –

    http://www.rickyperks.com/ched-evans/

    People are very quick to take the moral high ground but my question is if you were to have a drunken one night stand & in the morning the other person were to wake up & claim rape then what evidence would there be?!

    The trial was a farce – there can be no evidence in this trial other than hearsay. The truth is only 3 people can possibly know what really happened that night!!

    xx

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  437. 437
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 7, 2015 at 8:39 pm

    Spot on. What a terrible conclusion to reach in a liberal democracy.

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  438. 438
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 7, 2015 at 8:37 pm

    Thank you Meg: she has every right to get sloshed, but must be respected by we men. Oh dear.

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  439. 439
    John Ward's avatar
    John Ward on January 7, 2015 at 8:36 pm

    If only life was that simple – or indeed, simplistic.

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    John's avatar
    John on January 7, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    If he wasn’t so arrogant and smug then people would maybe look at the whole case from a different point of view but they way he is acting makes everyone think he is guilty as and not to be trusted round women

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  441. 441
    Simon Stephenson's avatar
    Simon Stephenson on January 7, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    I don’t know the answer to this, sorry. Perhaps because the evidence clearly established Evans as the initiator?

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  442. 442
    michelle's avatar
    michelle on January 7, 2015 at 8:02 pm

    Like this a lot, Ched Evans might be cheating man but not a rapist! Being a woman, I’ve been drunk many a times growing up, I’ve got myself into some right pickles! And yes I’ve gone home with some of them pickles, but that was my choice! I chose to get drunk and knew what I wanted! Ashamed the next day by my drunken antics but we live and learn! So my guesses here are, she was so ashamed for getting drunk, shagging 2 blokes in 1 night and so she cried rape to make her look less like a drunken tart!

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  443. 443
    Daniel's avatar
    Daniel on January 7, 2015 at 8:01 pm

    Not a huge amount of genuine analysis going on and certainly not enough to sway my opinion inline with your own. Just a couple of casual observations (without even looking into those properly). I can only assume that as you are basically saying the judge and jury were incompetent, you attended the trial and saw all the evidence presented.

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  444. 444
    Darren Smart (@Darren9682Smart)'s avatar
    Darren Smart (@Darren9682Smart) on January 7, 2015 at 7:56 pm

    Did she consent to sex with Ched? The answer is no. Therefor anything she drank or took is pointless to bring up. Rape is having sex with someone who hasn’t consented. Therefor he raped her. end of story.

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  445. 445
    Meg griffiths's avatar
    Meg griffiths on January 7, 2015 at 7:47 pm

    no matter what your opinion is, he WAS convicted by a jury of RAPE. Taking advantage of a woman who had had too much to drink, which she has all right to do, and not even having the decency to show remorse for it. Absolutely atrocious that he has been given the chance to be labeled, in the future, as “hero” and “legend” by young boys and girls who look up to footballers. End of story.

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  446. 446
    Daz68's avatar
    Daz68 on January 7, 2015 at 7:44 pm

    None! the evidence he was convicted on is A,she was too drunk to consent but cctv footage shows her walking into the hotel unaided in 5 to 6 inch wedge heel shoes then going back outside unaided bending from the knees to retrieve a pizza placed on the floor while.paying the taxi,B,throughout the trial she said she couldn’t rembember consenting,C Evans left by the back door, These are the.main points that secured a conviction! Plus the fact that no allegation of rape was made by the girl in question this accusation was only made after the 2 had said they had sex with her,Not my own made up version btw it’s all in black and white in the case files what can be viewed on many media sites.miscarriage of justice springs to mind

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  447. 447
    Terry B's avatar
    Terry B on January 7, 2015 at 7:43 pm

    I was going to say the same which brings us back to the question of how could she give consent with McDonald yet not Evans if the only reason for the conviction is how drunk she was?

    Surely she was just as drunk with McDonald if there was no evidence of any further alcohol being consumed.

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  448. 448
    Mark Deacon's avatar
    Mark Deacon on January 7, 2015 at 7:33 pm

    I would lynch-the-lynch mob on the ground they would support an economic system that destroys so many lives DAILY.

    The lynch mob tends to be comprised of those in the top half of the population on wealth who are quite prepared to crush the lowest 50% because they beleive themselves to be in the right.

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  449. 449
    Glory Days's avatar
    Glory Days on January 7, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    A little off topic but in response to various companies threatening to pull out of sponsorship deals if Ched Evans is signed I would dearly love to read of a company, or members of the public, that pulled business from the sponsoring companies for having no backbone.

    Personally I will give no more business to any of those limp-wristed, spineless, gutless, gut wrenching toss-pot sponsors who threaten to pull out of a club’s sponsorship deal.

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  450. 450
    Mark Deacon's avatar
    Mark Deacon on January 7, 2015 at 7:28 pm

    This point ..

    the piece was headed ‘No football club should touch Ched Evans, even if he does ever apologise’ – a view which makes me eternally glad I shall never need Ms Moore’s capacity for forgiveness to see me through. The subhead underneath then added: The argument for rehabilitation and second chances simply don’t wash in such a high-profile case’.

    Now why the f**k am I supposed to forgive a banker or believe a banker can ever be rehabilitated? If you are so right on your point Ms Morre then my point is equally pertinent in that all bankers should immediately be removed from the banking system because of Libor and all the other financial manipulations YET THEY ARE ALL STILL THERE RAPNG THE SYSTEM ECONOMICALLY.

    If you are raped financially of everything being raped physically does not mean alot and feel there are many people out their with the same sentiment. You can also add when eventually the time comes for those to start apologising for profiteering from the current corrupt economic system that only benefited those proportionally with more and where the lives of the poorest were sacrificed will NOT BE ACCEPTED NEITHER.

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  451. 451
    Davedruid's avatar
    Davedruid on January 7, 2015 at 7:17 pm

    Absolutely correct Simon, the Law is not there for common sense but purely for Law.
    Excellent piece John I’ve been banging on about this to anybody that I could corner for more than 30 seconds.

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  452. 452
    Glory Days's avatar
    Glory Days on January 7, 2015 at 7:16 pm

    I completely agree with the thrust of the article, but I do have a lot of sympathy for Ched Evans, the man’s life has been ruined as a result of a malicious allegation and subsequent conviction, and to make it worse he is now unemployable due to what I would call a type of blackmail. How can you not have sympathy?

    I also read the Ched Evans’ website, the last paragraph confirms everything I know about talking to the police, or in my case never talking to the police, never. I do not consent, I do not understand, I reserve all of my rights and waive none, that’s it.

    If they had kept their mouths shut none of this would have happened.

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  453. 453
    colin's avatar
    colin on January 7, 2015 at 7:15 pm

    Bits i dont get after reading evans website:

    1) Why leave when you have pulled a stunner and i am talking about the first guy who got off. Evans buggered off after not that long it seems because he has a girlfriend. Wouldn’t the other guy stay the night with the girl. She sounds like she was in control and knew what she wanted. Hence you would have a good night of it

    2) Why didnt they both ejaculate ? Or one of them at least. I would have used condoms as i am sure these guys will carry them as this type of thing sounds quite common for them.

    3) Have you seen her twitter account and some of the tweets on the net. They are still there.

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  454. 454
    the ghost's avatar
    the ghost on January 7, 2015 at 6:34 pm

    Another 5 yrs on the sentence if it is pulled apart as pure fiction & the possibility of a new charge of attempting to pervert the course of justice

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    icantalkoutloud's avatar
    icantalkoutloud on January 7, 2015 at 6:27 pm

    Really interesting article, Great Information

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    icantalkoutloud's avatar
    icantalkoutloud on January 7, 2015 at 6:26 pm

    Wrote an article myself about double standards for celebrities a month or so ago if anyone wants to have a read :)
    http://icantalkoutloud.wordpress.com/2014/11/17/double-standards-for-celebrities/

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  457. 457
    Dan's avatar
    Dan on January 7, 2015 at 6:10 pm

    But this argument is completely invalid, because his friend was given not guilty when she was in the same state.

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  458. 458
    neverironic's avatar
    neverironic on January 7, 2015 at 6:02 pm

    assuming you are correct, two points come to mind:
    1. how is a man supposed to figure out whether the woman is in a state to give consent and
    2. should it be the man’s duty to make a decision on behalf of a woman – if she says ‘yes’ should he say ‘no’ – because surely the whole point of feminism is to STOP men making decisions on behalf of women?

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  459. 459
    Grimboldi's avatar
    Grimboldi on January 7, 2015 at 5:37 pm

    He hasn’t severed his sentence. He has only served part of his sentence. He is out on license for the remainder of the sentence and therefore, if breaches his parole conditions will be sent back to prison.

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  460. 460
    Lampitt's avatar
    Lampitt on January 7, 2015 at 5:35 pm

    @ Simon Stephenson , Interesting ,so what is to prevent Evans saying he was too drunk to consent and therefore he too was raped as the law stands .

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  461. 461
    the ghost's avatar
    the ghost on January 7, 2015 at 5:31 pm

    Agree with everything barring “the problem here is one of nonsensical law”the law is far from that,whilst grey area’s are often thrown up the law is written in such a way that guides rather than compel certain interpretations & situations,this same law could be used if a doctor took advantage of a women knocked out for a operation & believe it was in a case involving a dentist although am not totally sure of that ,a line has to be drawn & the law is ambiguously written to guide not compel the changing situations arising without damaging the rights or protection to all parties involved

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  462. 462
    Granma's avatar
    Granma on January 7, 2015 at 5:11 pm

    What I find astonishing about this whole case is that the girl didn’t originally go to the police about rape – she went because she thought her drink had been spiked. She said she didn’t ( and still doesn’t) remember what happened that night. So, when questioned by police, if Ched Evans had simply replied ” Nothing happened” or even ” I was so drunk I don’t remember” there would have been no case. A lesson to us all not to speak to the police without a lawyer present! Evans was , if not “innocent”, incredibly naïve.

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  463. 463
    Hazel's avatar
    Hazel on January 7, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    Linda. Well said. Some of us were brought up in a different age, it seems. There was a lot wrong with old attitudes but a lot was right as well. I was told that men considered women as either tarts to have a good time with, or nice girls, suitable for marrying. All responsibility lay with the girl, she had to set standards because men would always “try it on”. It would be stupid to go back to a bloke’s pad because he would take that as consent to things you never even thought of. If you went out on a date, you must always have your fare home, not rely on your date to bring you back. For example, if you went with him to a party, then realised it wasn’t the kind of party you were expecting and that he was part of the problem. It was considered very shameful for a woman to be the worse for drink. A lot has moved on but the early lessons still resonate with me. The footballer does not excite my sympathy at all but it seems six of one and half a dozen of the other as far as blame goes. By the way, JW, I think you would have enjoyed being a barrister.

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  464. 464
    Ericco's avatar
    Ericco on January 7, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    I agree with most of your analysis as to whether it was rape or just two (or three or more if others were watching and filming) incredibly stupid people. Evans’ behaviour, as you say, and regardless as to the justice of the conviction and sentence, was particularly despicable. I even heard that his girlfriend was with him at the hotel!
    I thought the real problem, and the only reason why the case has come to such prominence, is because Evans wants to return to being a top level footballing hero to his fans. My opinion is that he needs to look for another career and we can forget about him. The porn industry could use men like him – the pay’s not bad and you can shag loads of tasty – but equally stupid women.

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  465. 465
    Ricky Spademan's avatar
    Ricky Spademan on January 7, 2015 at 4:00 pm

    i agree if you think back a few years back when another footballer was sent to prison for death by dangerous driving they was none of this about him getting a second chance to play again so why should ched Evans suffer

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  466. 466
    Simon Stephenson's avatar
    Simon Stephenson on January 7, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    I’ve not seen any evidence that the girl was known to McDonald prior to the night in question. All the accounts I have seen show that the first contact between them was that night, in the pizza bar.

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  467. 467
    Simon Stephenson's avatar
    Simon Stephenson on January 7, 2015 at 3:37 pm

    “perhaps use your mobile telephone to record the fact that she has consented to sex!”

    This wouldn’t do you any good if it was in any was suspected that the girl was too inebriated to have given consent. This is Evans “crime” – not that he failed to gain consent, but that he failed to ensure that the girl was competent enough to give it.

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  468. 468
    Simon Stephenson's avatar
    Simon Stephenson on January 7, 2015 at 3:31 pm

    murdomcsponge, I’m no expert, but Evans was convicted because (a) the law says that people beyond a certain level of inebriation are incapable of consenting to sexual activity and (b) the jury decided that the girl/woman in Evans’ case was beyond this level of inebriation. Under the law as it stood (and still stands), his behaviour is defined as rape, and he must therefore be convicted of this. The problem here is one of nonsensical law, not that Evans has been incorrectly convicted under it.

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  469. 469
    Simon Stephenson's avatar
    Simon Stephenson on January 7, 2015 at 3:23 pm

    There was non, I believe. Allison Pearson’s article (*) is a good source, and there are 3,000-odd comments some of which add to the Pearson article, even if most of them don’t.

    *
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11226209/Ched-Evans-Sorry-but-all-rapes-are-not-the-same.html

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  470. 470
    OAH's avatar
    OAH on January 7, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/this-persecution-of-ched-evans-is-mediaeval/16428#.VK1OCXssti0

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  471. 471
    Simon Stephenson's avatar
    Simon Stephenson on January 7, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    Thank you.

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  472. 472
    Simon Stephenson's avatar
    Simon Stephenson on January 7, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    I don’t know the answer to this. All I can think of is that as the alcohol entered her system she became more drunk, and as a result went over the boundary between being considered able to give consent, and not being able to do so. The jury then decided that McDonald gained consent while she was still deemed capable of giving it, but that by the time Evans sought consent she had become incapable of giving it.

    The whole thing’s a mess, and although Evans’ behaviour falls well below that which one would hope for from a responsible adult, it also falls well short of that which could reasonably be held to constitute rape.

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  473. 473
    Unknown's avatar
    John Ward – Ched Evans: Not The Account You’re Being Given By The Mainstream Media – 7 January 2015 | Lucas 2012 Infos on January 7, 2015 at 3:04 pm

    […] http://www.hat4uk.wordpress.com / link to original article […]

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  474. 474
    angelteuton's avatar
    angelteuton on January 7, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    you cannot do that on an ipad — dear boy.

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  475. 475
    NorthernSpirit's avatar
    NorthernSpirit on January 7, 2015 at 1:56 pm

    penultimate line should be ‘your’ not ‘you’re’. I hate onscreen proof reading.

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  476. 476
    NorthernSpirit's avatar
    NorthernSpirit on January 7, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    LF + 100 ! As an older woman, I was just about to post a similar comment, but you’ve said it all so succinctly. It’s the lack of self-preservation that really amazes me – and their view that whatever goes wrong must be someone else’s fault. I don’t condone the two footballers’ behaviour, but young women in my day (c. 1970s) knew that, very often, blokes + alcohol = bad news and simply removed themselves from the vicinity. My Victorian grandmother’s view would have been ‘you’ve made you’re bed, now lie on it’ – in other words, take responsibility for your own behaviour.

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  477. 477
    Si's avatar
    Si on January 7, 2015 at 1:25 pm

    What a great article…..my brother actually locked Ched Evans up for the duration of his sentence. He along with every other officer who works on the wing claim that Ched Evans has been stitched up……these are officers who hate sex offenders of any form be it famous or not and would never contemplate giving them the time of day but they have a different view of him. I hope justice does prevail and his name is cleared.

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  478. 478
    derek83d's avatar
    derek83d on January 7, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    A very well argued follow up to a very well stated original piece, thank you.

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  479. 479
    TFS's avatar
    TFS on January 7, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    The media, you gotta love em, this pearl from Australia, Murdoch no doubt…..Journalism is truly dead.

    http://www.news.com.au/world/six-really-stupid-911-conspiracies-debunked-in-about-six-seconds/story-fndir2ev-1226717737311

    What annoys me most about this article is the release of classified material to them pesky Russians. Up to now the Russians were blissfully unaware that all they had to do was switch off their transponders and so couldn’t be tracked….who knew?

    Good job Blighty had a more sophisticated radar during WW2 and thank god the Germans didn’t switch of their transponders too or the Battle of Britain may have turned out differently……..

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  480. 480
    Terry B's avatar
    Terry B on January 7, 2015 at 1:04 pm

    If you accept the timeline given on http://chedevans.com/key-and-undisputed-facts, then the victim “picked up” McDonald and went willing.

    So the only question is whether she was too drunk or spiked and therefore unable to consent.

    If she was able to give consent with McDonald then why not Evans?

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  481. 481
    Mark's avatar
    Mark on January 7, 2015 at 12:59 pm

    My understanding of the case is that the victim was an acquaintance of footballer number one and kind of invited herself into his taxi and hence back to the hotel. Thus the jury took this as a kind of consent to what sexual activity later took place between them. Mr Evans having received a phone call turned up later, blagged his way past the receptionist and up to the room jumping in part way through the copulations of his friend. Outside his friends tried to film what was going on with their mobile phones. The jury made the decision that the victim did not consent to this taking place or was too drink hence Mr Evans was found guilty and his friend acquitted. I don’t think anybody comes out of this sordid episode very well at all but I do on the present facts accept the juries decision, they did after all sit through the whole trial and hear all the evidence first hand.
    The jury clearly had a very difficult decision to make and their decision has been upheld by the court of appeal.

    As Mr Evans has now served his sentence his further employment in football should be the decision of any individual club and not meddling politicians or pressure groups, subject of course to any restriction legally imposed as a convicted sex offender.

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  482. 482
    Ian W's avatar
    Ian W on January 7, 2015 at 12:42 pm

    John, a good post and you will be pleased to know that you are not alone. For a different aspect of the same issue you and others here may be interested to read
    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/the-war-on-rape-the-logic-of-the-lynch-mob-returns/16349#.VKvyOp4fLBT – “The war on rape: the logic of the lynch mob returns”

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  483. 483
    Terry B's avatar
    Terry B on January 7, 2015 at 12:38 pm

    A quick question if I may.

    Clayton McDonald wasn’t convicted yet Ched Evans was.

    If she was too drunk to consent with Evans was she too drunk to consent with McDonald?

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  484. 484
    Linda Fisher's avatar
    Linda Fisher on January 7, 2015 at 12:37 pm

    I’m sad to say, a sign of our times. Now I am going to sound very old and rather stuffy, but here goes. Women just did not behave like this in my day, now they seem to leave their brains, self respect and self safety somewhere else. To my mind it is no freedom at all to behave as though you have absolutely no self control whatsoever. How incredibly stupid this girl was and further more what an example it sets to others, just go out and get rat arsed, go anywhere with anyone, then when it all goes pear shaped, shout rape! Grow up girlie! All I can suggest to young men is to be very very careful when you wish to go further with a plastered young woman, perhaps use your mobile telephone to record the fact that she has consented to sex! Needs must! Finally to really sound like a grumpy old woman, perhaps it is time for all young people to get a grip and stop thinking it is clever, daring, liberating,somehow glamorous, to make shameful exhibitions of themselves under the influence of the curses of our time…. Alcohol and drugs. Get a life and do something useful!

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  485. 485
    jaywit's avatar
    jaywit on January 7, 2015 at 12:36 pm

    oldgodger .Ctrl plus plus +++++ Dear boy

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  486. 486
    the ghost's avatar
    the ghost on January 7, 2015 at 12:22 pm

    testing

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  487. 487
    Joyra's avatar
    Joyra on January 7, 2015 at 12:20 pm

    Good analysis, but please go with a darker font.

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  488. 488
    DavidC's avatar
    DavidC on January 7, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    oldgodger,
    Funnily enough, my thoughts exactly on reading this post of John’s (which is spot on, by the way). I had to increase the font size to read it!

    DavidC

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  489. 489
    RouterAl's avatar
    RouterAl on January 7, 2015 at 11:58 am

    Brave post John, was listening to Radio Scotland phone in yesterday about Mr Evans, during the phone-in one person suggested the listeners go to the Evans web site.

    http://chedevans.com/key-and-undisputed-facts

    The presenter a Louise White cut him off and shut him up so fast it was interesting. I immediately went to find the web site and read for the first time the details of the case , and saw the video.
    I would also say I had no interest in the case until this phone-in, the bile being poured on this man was totally out of proportion to the crime, I instinctively dislike lynch mobs and ill informed ones at that.
    How can one guy be innocent and one be guilty of sex with the same girl. Just hope the appeal is upheld and he can sue the media for every penny he can get.
    I ‘m also mystified as to why this man is being so vilified by the media especially the BBC, could it be that they have a sex case that does not involve one of their former employee’s.

    LikeLiked by 1 person

  490. 490
    murdomcsponge's avatar
    murdomcsponge on January 7, 2015 at 11:55 am

    Very good analysis. I feel the guy, though a complete twerp, has not been fairly judged, and the woman’s behaviour and evidence have not been equitbly weighed by public opinion – or for that matter by the Court and the jury. I’m sorry to read Simon Stephensen’s opinion; I suspect he knows what he’ talking about and is right that the appeal will fail. That the man cannot play football again professionally, is something that troubles me a lot. I think that is wrong.

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  491. 491
    Doug McGregor's avatar
    Doug McGregor on January 7, 2015 at 11:52 am

    Agreed on this , painful to read.

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  492. 492
    FrankS's avatar
    FrankS on January 7, 2015 at 11:36 am

    Suzanne Moore? Greer described her as wearing “f*ck-me shoes”. I guess they worked.

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  493. 493
    Roger Gough's avatar
    Roger Gough on January 7, 2015 at 11:23 am

    Does anyone know if there was forensic evidence which helped convict Evans?

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  494. 494
    karl's avatar
    karl on January 7, 2015 at 11:14 am

    But how can the other man be let free if that is the law? Does the law not also state “a drunken concent is still concent”?

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  495. 495
    Jon Allen's avatar
    Jon Allen on January 7, 2015 at 10:56 am

    I meant to discuss this case with you over New Year – but somehow having fun and weightier issues took precedence. Some time ago I felt distinctly uncomfortable about the witch hunt against Evans. I looked at the sites set up to defend him (one of which the ‘victim’s’ father has now reported to the Attorney General) and then went through the video evidence. There is no way this conviction is sound; there is certainly reasonable doubt. What went on in that hotel is unsavoury but not illegal. It’s also the sort of behaviour a number of Premier League footballers boast about and TV channels feature in ‘reality’ series about the young of Wales and Tyneside. Of course, Evans has shown no remorse – that would be tantamount to an admission of guilt while he was waiting the outcome of his appeal. The BBC’s headline coverage has been disgracefully supportive of soundbite mob rule (BBC online has far more balance, but only if you dig). I remember a BBC which would have completely ignored an anonymous blogger like Jean Hatchet – who would undoubtedly claim that by writing this I am supporting rapists. I’m beginning to side with Tony Hancock in thinking that Magna Carta may have died in vain.

    LikeLiked by 1 person

  496. 496
    joekano76's avatar
    joekano76 on January 7, 2015 at 10:47 am

    Reblogged this on Floating-voter.

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  497. 497
    Jeremy Stocks's avatar
    Jeremy Stocks on January 7, 2015 at 10:44 am

    Is that the woman with the funny looking hair? Terrible man hater.

    LikeLike

  498. 498
    gordie's avatar
    gordie on January 7, 2015 at 10:42 am

    A guy I used to play 5 aside with,met a girl at a nightclub,went back to her flat,had consensual sex and left. Next day the police arrived and she had accused him of rape. He was charged,name /face plastered over the papers,and had to endure a trial. It emerged she had a boyfriend who arrived home later whereupon she got an attack of guilt for being unfaithful. It took the jury 20 mins to throw it out and for him to be acquitted.Still reputation ruined and forever associated with a rape charge

    LikeLiked by 1 person

  499. 499
    Green Queen's avatar
    Green Queen on January 7, 2015 at 10:39 am

    A well balanced analysis, and right at the heart of the issue. If we lived in other times the chap would have been stoned and crucified by now, to satisfy the baying mob. And if in the end he IS innocent, oopsie, on with the next blood letting.
    Personal responsibility and the apparent lack of, is the true demon for our nation.

    LikeLiked by 1 person

  500. 500
    Peter Charles's avatar
    Peter Charles on January 7, 2015 at 10:36 am

    William Blackstone (1769) wrote that, “the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer.” As I understand it, this was in fact a tenet of Roman law, but never mind. The point is that the view of governmental authority, be it monarch, despot, parliament or whatever, has always believed the opposite. But it was only under Blair that it truly became: Better that ten innocent men be condemned than one guilty man go free” and was adopted so openly and wholeheartedly by the political, commentariat and legal elites.

    LikeLiked by 1 person

  501. 501
    Tom's avatar
    Tom on January 7, 2015 at 10:34 am

    Evans is merely a useful target for the hypocritical establishment and their propaganda organs to avoid any scrutiny of Prince Andrew and other powerful people. Evans is the perfect target because he doesn’t have powerful connections and the establishment know that anything to do with football will keep the ‘plebs’ talking.
    I don’t have any time or much sympathy for Evans but it is disgusting to see the media applying different standards to working class footballers than it does to royalty, Presidents and MPs.
    But as with Lord McAlpine it is clear they are prepared to lie, smear and bully to protect their own.
    Let’s hope the general election will at least see some of these traitors kicked out of office, and perhaps some of their lackeys in the press will follow.

    LikeLiked by 1 person

  502. 502
    Maria das Santos/'s avatar
    Maria das Santos/ on January 7, 2015 at 10:33 am

    The “feminazis”are in for a shock.None of these poor dears have been exposed to the real brutality of men and it won’t matter if they have excellent titles.As far as I can see until now men have held back,I dread when they won’t.

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  503. 503
    Iain's avatar
    Iain on January 7, 2015 at 10:30 am

    There are several issues here.He was found guilty, and served his sentence. Therefore the perceived debt to society is paid in full. Further hounding after his release is repugnant, despite the attitude of wimmen.
    There is also the possibility of appeal that may give a totally different outcome.

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  504. 504
    Simon Stephenson's avatar
    Simon Stephenson on January 7, 2015 at 10:28 am

    John, I’m with you 100% on this, but I think you’ll find that the law on consent, as it stands, is that if a person is above a certain level of intoxication/inebriation, there is a presumption that he/she is incapable of giving consent. Before engaging in sexual activity with someone, it is therefore the responsibility of each party both (a) to obtain consent and (b) to ensure that the other party is in a state where he/she is capable of giving it.

    This is where Evans fell foul of the law – the question wasn’t whether or not the girl/woman had given consent, it was whether or not she was in a state to be capable of ding so, under the law as it then was, and now is. The court decided that in their opinion she wasn’t in such a state, and as a result Evans’ conviction for rape was automatic.

    So what we have is, in my opinion, a thoroughly bad and unsafe law – where any drunken coupling can be treated, by legal definition, as being rape. This is a situation that is completely nonsensical. Apart from anything else, it gives unscrupulous women the ability to create situations in which they build power over men by holding over them the threat of exposing them as technical rapists as a result of episodes of sexual intercourse that were consensual in every way – except that the law actually prevents them, technically, from having been so.

    The outcry of a vociferous minority against Evans is no so much against him as a person, but against his insistence on taking his case to appeal (where I fear he will fail), and in the resulting exposure of the unsafe and nonsensical features of this law. The feminist zealots have got some of what they wanted in the form of this ridiculous law, and no matter how much damage it may do to innocent people, they will go to any lengths to prevent it from being modified into something better, and more generally acceptable.

    LikeLiked by 1 person

  505. 505
    neverironic's avatar
    neverironic on January 7, 2015 at 10:25 am

    I completely agree with your comments re. this particular case and the state of ‘pc mob rule’ in Britain.
    keep up the good work. we need it.

    LikeLike

  506. 506
    zeusgoose's avatar
    zeusgoose on January 7, 2015 at 10:15 am

    Decent analysis John. Logic and the mob mentality were ever strangers.
    Anyone who has imbibed more than they should will be familiar with the false feeling of confidence and belief that they are handling events well.
    The cold light of dawn rarely confirms this…..even if you can remember. Office parties are a classic example.

    LikeLike

  507. 507
    oldgodger's avatar
    oldgodger on January 7, 2015 at 10:11 am

    I don’t know if its because of advancing years, but the font size seems to be getting smaller, and the grey colour getting fainter. Long posts from you are great in their content, but painful to read. If I recall the issue was raised when you first used your new format for the blog. I reqest you increase your font size, and use a black font. I feel sure there are other old farts like myself feel somewhat the same.

    LikeLiked by 1 person

  508. 508
    OAH's avatar
    OAH on January 7, 2015 at 10:07 am

    Brilliant analysis JW. The rule of law is dead and in its place we have the rule of screaming PC feminazis. I despair of the one sided PC media commentary on this and other like matters. Likewise the disgusting attitude of the Government refusing to allow the man to work abroad. Will the feminazi situation improve? I doubt it. They are now the lawyers, the doctors, the teachers. We are the oppressed minority!

    LikeLiked by 1 person

  509. 509
    william's avatar
    william on January 7, 2015 at 9:55 am

    JW, scholarly analysis on a dank morning.

    LikeLiked by 1 person

  510. 510
    graemepscott's avatar
    graemepscott on January 7, 2015 at 9:50 am

    An excellent piece John,congratulations ! I have felt all along that he was falsely committed, and I am now certain that he was ill served by the justice system. Thank you for proving me right.

    LikeLike

  511. 511
    Fenton's avatar
    Fenton on January 7, 2015 at 9:37 am

    You have summed this case up well. Interestingly, over at The Guardian, they appear to have been taken by surprise that the vast majority of comments under Moore’s article agree with you that the trial was a farce and the evidence non existent.

    The misandry of the anti-rape industry has seen the very serious and noble cause of women’s rights hijacked by extremists who refuse to grant that men are ever unjustly accused and consequently fear utter humiliation if the verdict in this case or any other rape case is reversed. They are determined not to let this happen.

    LikeLiked by 1 person

  512. 512
    Roger Gough's avatar
    Roger Gough on January 7, 2015 at 9:35 am

    You may also be interested to know John that I have just tried to forward this article to a friend who is not a subscriber to your blog. Delivery was denied – it was stated – because “it looked like spam”. Are YOU being gagged – or am I, re. a reference to Scotland?

    LikeLike

  513. 513
    devonian's avatar
    devonseaglass on January 7, 2015 at 9:34 am

    Brilliant analysis!

    LikeLike

  514. 514
    Nuffzed's avatar
    nuffzed on January 7, 2015 at 9:26 am

    The ‘stoning’ comment is key here., as in “Casting the first stone” … Fast forward to the unlikely scenario where Ched Evans plays professional football again. One can only imagine the baying of the opposition’s fans and the crude chants from those hypocrites whom secretly wished they could have joined that infamous threesome.
    The judicial system is totally fecked as is Ched Evans with whom I have a certain degree of empathy.
    It is clear that ‘Political Correctness’ has to be seen to be done rather than ‘Justice’.

    LikeLike

  515. 515
    Roger Gough's avatar
    Roger Gough on January 7, 2015 at 9:23 am

    The Ministry of Justice – as I have written to my local paper to point out – has stated that Evans cannot take up offers of work overseas because of the conviction. This seems to contravene the ‘European free movement of labour’ bullshit that the EU says is paramount to the success or otherwise of the Brussels construct. Of course that ‘movement’ of labour was directly responsible for the death of a young girl in West London last year when she was attacked (as the evidence would have it) by a Latvian who had a conviction and a 7 year stretch behind him, for murdering his wife. Examples of this betrayal of the safety of the residents of Britain are everywhere. Parliament has condoned the continuing presence in Britain of a Mafia member, found living in West London under a false name but wanted on warrant in Italy. He can’t be extradited there because the conditions that he would have to endure in any prison to which he might be committed in Italy would fall way below that consistent with what he might expect under his “human rights”. Why don’t you also mention the name of the driver of the lorry which crashed in Glasgow killing 6. And the one that occurred the following day in Scotland killing one.

    LikeLike

  516. 516
    Sir Henry Rawlinson's avatar
    Sir Henry Rawlinson on January 7, 2015 at 9:12 am

    Well done JW. A sensible and balanced piece of writing. Common sense and rationality are in short supply these days. Mob rule does indeed make the running.

    LikeLike

  517. 517
    Lampitt's avatar
    Lampitt on January 7, 2015 at 9:05 am

    But if you are well connected and can shred evidence in a timely manner , you walk.

    LikeLike

  518. 518
    M P Jones's avatar
    M P Jones on January 7, 2015 at 9:02 am

    Rape doesn’t takes place during sexual intercouse but when you tell the casual partner too get lost next morning…

    I agree with your assessment. Like you I have no sympathy for the louts, male and female, in this case but I doubt justice was served.

    LikeLike

  519. 519
    Lance's avatar
    Lance on January 7, 2015 at 8:51 am

    I reached a similar conclusion regarding Ched Evans, Despite being found guilty of rape, I don’t think he is. I keep thinking I am missing something here. I believe he filmed himself/themselves which makes them despicable.

    LikeLike

  520. 520
    ALD's avatar
    ALD on January 7, 2015 at 8:47 am

    A sponsors comment. Very sensible point of view.
    http://www.webapplicationsuk.com/web-applications-respond-to-ched-evans-speculation/

    LikeLike

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